User talk:Isaiah Cartwright/Izzy Talk Archive 19

Izzy Status

I suck and haven't been updating this very much. I blame GW2! Izzy @-'---- 01:51, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

I took the liberty of archiving some of the older topics. Concerning GW 2, I really hope it's worth the time it took away from the developers that they could have used to improve GW 1. --Draikin 00:45, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks :P Izzy @-'---- 19:13, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes GW2, are there any developers left for gw1 then? prokiller88 01:41, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

There are 2 people full time on GW1, and a bunch of people who help in their spare time, or downtime while working on GW2. While I know it can be frustrating at times we are doing our best to make GW2 the best game we can, while updating and improving GW1. I'm sure this isn't as fast as some people may want, but keep in mind this is still a business and we need to do what we feel is best for our company, our product, and our employees. Remember there is always a lot going on behind the scenes and even the simplest fix takes time to implement, test, market, and push to live. Izzy @-'---- 19:13, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

And its always wise to take the inbetween time into consideration; how people feel Arenanet is treating the current game and community is something to ponder. There's an awful long time between now and when Guild Wars 2, but I'm sure as a business Arenanet is taking its current customers into consideration when handling matters... 000.00.00.00 12:55, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

What 000.00.00.00 is hinting at is that it is not in your best business interest to leave the impression "Arenanet makes good games, but when the mood strikes them, they stop caring about it and let everything go to hell. So I guess spending money for a subscription-based mmo is really worth it." But at the moment, you are making a pretty good case for that point of view. 134.130.4.46 01:41, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

It's sad that there are so many comments on broken skills, yet they haven't been fixed, is leaving GW1 a broken mess supposed to entice us to buy GW2? That's pretty backwards marketing if u ask me. I remember when GW1 was the #1 selling game.... for 3 months. 3 years later.... I hope you get the point. Noone is going to buy GW2 if you balance it. btw, u still need to give Detraya his rank 9 back Adrin 01:59, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Quite frankly Guild Wars 2 can go <insert your favourite swear word here> itself, I'm a player of the game Guild Wars and that is my priority, its disappointing to have such a good game as Guild Wars is, slip, because it is and with such a gap between Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 more and more slip ups are ill-advised. This time would be the perfect opportunity for Arenanet to try new things - login screen changes to help keep players informed on server/lag/disconnection issues, updates, developer updates for example.

Secondly, I don't want to buy Guild Wars 2 and have it be like someone coming into my house loosely disguised as my best friend and wondering if he's going to leave soon or murder me and cannibalise my body. Developers sometimes change things a little too much.

How can you guys honestly expect us to buy Guild Wars 2 if issues with Guild Wars are left to fester and grow bigger? You guys could be making a really good game with Guild Wars 2, but as a consumer of video games how developers handle their products is big for me and honestly, two full time staff for Guild Wars is an insult, not only to us but yourselves. Guild Wars is a big game, and there are many things that need working on and the best you guys can do is muster is 'two full time staff' and a bunch of people in their spare time. Regina makes it seems like there's a lot to Guild Wars that we as the community don't see nor understand, it can't really be that much of Arenanet's management sees that such a task can be managed by two people.

[wipes tears] I think that was a rant ^_^ not sure if it made any sense but meh. 000.00.00.00 08:17, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

So... what's the status on this 40 elite update? I was so sure it was coming out today (mAT is past, the update sounded as though it was ready last month, and it's Thursday)... What gives? Pluto 04:09, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Uh...yeah it was Thursday, but it was Thursday of July. The elite dev update says it may POSSIBLY be out next month, the tonic update is the first Thursday of the month, which means if anything the HoM + Elite update will be next Thursday. :) DarkNecrid 09:21, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

I love you Izzy. =< ~Phill Gaston ‎ 01:34, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Blessed Light and Signet of Devotion

I know you are a very busy man and looking at skill feedback on the skills section must take a while, there are a few viable suggestions that I can open your eyes to for Blessed Light.

Proposal #1

Heal target ally for 40...88...100 Health and remove one hex and one condition. You gain 3 energy if a hex is removed and 2 energy if a condition is removed. (10e, 4 recharge 3/4 cast time)

-Won't be used as a primary heal because it will still be 10 energy

-Lowered Healing by a little, uped the recharge by one second

Proposal #2

Heal target ally for 40...88...100 Health. If target ally was enchanted, also remove a condition and a hex. (5e, 6 recharge, 3/4 cast time)

-Makes the full effect harder to achieve

-Conditional removal

-Increased recharge to 6 seconds which prevents overspamming

Signet of Devotion

Proposal-This skill really needs to be buffed because it is unplayable at two seconds.

Heal target ally for 15...85...125. (8 recharge, 1 cast time).

-Cast time reduced to see some use in high end pvp

-Upped recharge due to buff to cast time and slight healing increased

So as you can see, the issue with blessed light is NOT that it needs an increased heal. It needs some sort of reward for meeting the condition and hopefully, implementing one of these changes will balance this once-loved skill (i still love it even though its terrible now! i find every excuse to run it but it gets destroyed regardless:P) Please take these into consideration when making your next big skill update. :) Thanks--Lancy1214 23:10, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

B-Light needs to go to 5 3/4 3 Heal target ally for 10...114...140 and remove one hex and one condition. If a hex or condition is removed, you lose 5 energy. -cabra

Cabra, that would promote to spam the spell as a heal which is not what the skill is used for. Having a small recharge of 3 seconds will once again let divine protters have the ability to heal. Also, that doesn't encourage smart play of the skill. It would be better having it as a 10 energy skill with energy rewarded if the conditions are met or have it as 5e with a conditional remove. --Lancy1214 20:26, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

BLight needs to heal a lot more to compete with WoH. The condition and hex removal power of BLight becomes moot in the face of the raw power offered by WoH. As far as Signet of Devotion goes, it's fine the way it is. It's a free ~100 heal. The problem is you need 14 Divine Favor to use it, so when BLight is viable, Signet of Devotion will be too. It's not worth the time investment at lower attribute levels which other types of Monks run and that's fine.

--TimeToGetIntense 05:28, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Sure, sig of devo is a free 100 heal but how many times do you actually manage to pull the heal off without interruption? Cancelling helps but then theres really no point of bringing it anyways if you are going to half to cancel constantly every time you use it. And no, blight and woh are 2 different spells and function differently. The condition and hex removal should result in an overall less healing from blight otherwise people would just use blesed light instead of woh.

--72.138.13.180 23:10, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Sig Devo: Who cares if it gets interrupted, it's FREE. If someone uses an interrupt on it, it's pretty much a waste of their interrupt. They can be more productive by interrupting most other skills you or your allies have. I guarantee you, if there's a viable Divine Favor Monk, it will run Sig Devo.

Blight: If the enemy team uses WoH and you use BLight your pressure management is a fraction of theirs. There is no contest, you lose. Their team can play more aggressively because they have so much stronger heals. It doesn't matter how good you are at removing hexes or conditions. BLight only saw play in the past because it actually rivaled the Boon Prot in efficiency. Now it needs to be better on split than WoH. It needs to be a skill that makes a Monk really strong solo, for that it needs to be better at healing to compress the skillbar. WoH just needs to be stronger at stand and we'll have a balance between the two skills. --TimeToGetIntense 15:18, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I usually bring Signet of Rejuvenation instead of Signet of Devotion if I make a healing build. 145.94.74.23 11:47, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Signet of Rejuvenation is great if you're primarily using Healing Prayers. If you primarily use Divine Favor, Signet of Devotion is better. --TimeToGetIntense 14:29, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Signet of Devotion is more like - I WAS going to heal you but it took like 2 WHOLE seconds for that SLOW bar to fill up that you died anyways. I say make the heal on it with the same scale of orison and put the cast time to 1, and its fixed... Heals for 20...60...70 76.26.189.65 00:05, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Signet of Devotion is more like - I WAS going to heal you but it took like 2 WHOLE seconds for that SLOW bar to fill up that you died anyways. I say make the heal on it with the same scale of orison and put the cast time to 1, and its fixed... Heals for 20...60...70 76.26.189.65 00:05, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Blessed Light:To TimetoGet Intense, the utilization of blight although strong, should not be used as a primary heal. Thus your comparison with Woh is somewhat misleading due to the situation both should be used. Blight is meant to be combined with other healing spells such as Gift of Health and thus the whole play style of the blight monk should be played differently. With Blight, you play as an active prot monk who should pre-prot team members via spirit bond...etc. Gift of Health is used generically to heal people who need the health. However, with Woh, users sometimes wait to get the full benefit of Woh from the 50% halfmark. Woh is often also used as a generic heal even though its condition isn't met. Obviously a monk speccing into healing has stronger heals than a Blessed Light monk but that's not the point. And also to your comment about removing conditions and hexes, yes it does matter how fast a monk removes them because they can either make the game or break the game. If your melee is suffering melee hexes and weakness/blind, you will have no dps thus forcing you to spend more energy curing the ailments and healing while your melee hopelessly wait till the durations end.

Signet of Devotion= Yes viable divine monk builds run this skill but once again, what's the point of speccing so high into divine favour when one of your energy management skills is going to be interrupted anyways? I don't know about you but bringing interrupt bait is certainly not worth a skill spot on my action bar. I like your suggestion 76 maybe keeping the recharge the same as it is while lowering the healing to that of orison and reducing the cast time would make it more balanced. That way, it serves its goal as topping off someone's health while healing less so healing prayers will be needed.--Lancy1214 01:53, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

BLight cannot work without being more efficient. The point of BLight is that it does 3 different things. It removes a hex, a condition and it heals. It's not Signet of Removal. It's the ultimate bar compression Monk elite. It needs to be better at one of those 3 things, the healing part. And who gives a fuck about the 50% clause on WoH. It still has double the energy efficiency of BLight above 50%. How are you supposed to compensate for such a massive loss in healing power and even begin to compete with a WoH Monk? --TimeToGetIntense 13:54, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Amen to that. That's why blight needs some sort of energy return to be worthwhile bringing or an energy reduction. --Lancy1214 16:50, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

As long as it can't deal with actual damage it sucks. Sure it would be great if you could get energy back for removing hexes/conditions. What if the enemy has very few of them and they have a WoH Monk? GG you're fucked. --TimeToGetIntense 04:34, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure a monk doesn't rely their WHOLE build on an elite, so the blight monk has other options to heal allies/herself regardless of the situation (Reversal of Fortune, Gift of Health, Guardian, Dismiss Condition...etc). --Lancy1214 22:52, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

All of those pale in comparison to WoH, especially when your main attribute is Divine Favor. --TimeToGetIntense 09:05, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

You people bashing BLight can't know the meta atm. The meta is load up on hexes and go and pressure them out. When facing a pressure you DONT need the strong heal from WoH, but the extra hex removal is ALWAYS helpful. A hexway team degen's you out, it has little raw damage meaning yeah BLight>WoH (but only if BLight can get some greater form of energy manangement).

I am shocked, disappointed and surprised at how Izzy has not even made an attempt to comment on the above issue at all. It has been over a month since i first posted the issue and not one comment from you; I sure hope you certainly get your act together for guild wars two.--Lancy1214 23:17, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Nerf Bat

After watching the tourny final match with [rawr] using 4 monks, 1 rit and 1 signet mesmer who here thinks smite is going to get hit again? --Shadetz X 02:39, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Smiting isn't the problem. Scythe damage and 5-man backlines are. ~Shard (talk) 04:20, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree that smiting is not a problem. Damage creep in general is getting out of hand. Seriously, when you see 2 heal/prot monks, 2 smiter's boon monks and 1 resto flag runner in play you know something is wrong. There is no need for 5 man backline if the support classes are getting nerfed while damage creep is more of a problem. Although I enjoy using OP builds (mostly melee) that kill things in a few seconds, I do not think they are healthy for the game. --Shadetz X 05:33, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

What possible definition of backline did the smite monks fit? --24.179.151.252 17:42, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

They knew Dark Ally was going to bring 2 Dervishes. Reversal of Damage + 2 Smite Condition + Warrior Spike (and maybe Smite Hex) is too much for those Dervishes. I hope SoJ won't get nerfed b/c it isn't overpowered at all. I do not think shade was referring to Rebel Rising's team set up but meta in general. --216.113.208.150 22:24, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

scyte dameg is not overpowred. izzy did right in bufing woondin streik as scytes do to low dameg and dep woond is the vors condtinion in the gaem --Frozen Archer 22:46, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Frozen Archer are you spelling that way on purpose? If not then I must assume you understand syntax about as well as you play the game. Deep wound is one of the most powerful skills in the game that will cause a person to lose up to 100 points of their maximum health and reduces healing by 20%. Done25 00:45, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

He was mocking the people who say scythes aren't overpowered. --76.25.197.215 01:12, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

I doubt it. He has been warned multiple times about trolling. Take a peek at his discussion page. Done25 01:16, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

u cant see difference between jokes and trolling sir --Cursed Angel 01:17, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

This is trolling http://wiki.guildwars.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Isaiah_Cartwright&diff=next&oldid=942887 Done25 01:23, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

He is already on the Guild Wars Wiki:Admin noticeboard btw. He is three sections above you Cursed. Done25 01:26, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Wow I am good at predicting the obvious :O... SOJ was nerfed --Shadetz X 04:31, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

How to make GW the best game ever

Ok izzy, since you're obviously a comment removed by user and have no clue how to balance the game, I'm going to guide you through it, step by step. You can use this guide every month and all gimmicks will disappear, and more people might actually come back to the game. People might even buy GW2 if they think it will be fun. It's all up to you. You can keep sucking at game balance and GW2 won't sell, or you can make GW the best game ever and GW2 a close second.

Step 1: Learn math. If there are two skills that are 5 1 3 and one of them heals for 100 while the other heals for 70, and that's all they do, something is wrong. Balance includes everything having equal power levels on average.

Step 2: Learn what game balance is. There are hundreds if not thousands of articles on the internet that will teach you why something without counters is broken. More counters = more strategy. Less counters = more 321killthembeforetheykillus. There should never be a skill that is completely unstoppable.

Step 3: Play the game. A build that can kill something every 3 seconds with one skill is broken. Not knowing what people are running impedes you as a game balancer. A thousand players will always find more broken mechanics than one person, and that's fine. It's your responsibility to watch that. Try out every popular build a few times, see which ones are too easy/too powerful.

Step 4: When you find a broken skill/build, ask yourself "Why is this skill/build broken? Why do people run this skill/build?" Soul Reaping was not broken because it was giving necromancers 300 energy per minute instead of 144. It is broken because it's passive, unpredictable energy management. Searing Flames is not broken because it has aoe or because the damage is 110 instead of 100, it's broken because its recharge is 2. Magebane was not broken because it costed 5 instead of 10, it's broken because it's too spammable. Strength of Honor was not broken because it could be reapplied when removed, in fact, Strength of Honor isn't even broken. AoE hammers with 92 damage criticals are. Changing random numbers on random skills will not balance the game. You have to use that brown thing inside your skull to fix things.

Step 5: Follow up. Are your new changes abusable? If so, maybe a second balance is required to fix those things instead of letting it become the most equipped skill in all of pvp for over a month.

Here's how to tell when something is overpowered: It becomes the metagame. Balanced games do not have a metagame. Look at Starcraft. You can win with any race, any combination of units. There is never a starcraft tournament where everybody runs hydralisk rush, because there are 500 other ways to win. People play SC based on their play styles, not based on "we absolutely have to use this skill because it's broken, and there are no alternatives for winning." ~Shard (talk) 02:17, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree with/quote one part of this. There should never be a METAGAME. Every skill, every build, every class, should be equally capable, or stand out in their specific fields. Hopefully this Thursday/Friday brings a huge skill overhaul, and brings back/makes some useless and old skills usable at last, and takes heavily powered skills down a notch. Phill Gaston 02:35, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure Izzy doesn't know this Shard. You're such a wonderful help. — Skakid 03:10, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

He either doesn't know any of this, or he does and someone else is balancing the game. ~Shard (talk) 07:16, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

the point of changing random numbers on random skills is to open up new possibilities and not to balance something, you can't just nerf and take everything away 87.189.241.25 10:09, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Buff something...nerf something else to disuse, thats how updates are now. :P --Super Igor 10:33, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

I pray Izzy doesn't nerf anything, because he has a tendency to make skills TOO good, then take it out and shoot it. ((I miss the old sundering/penetrating attack...Its not worth the 1s activation)) I like Wounding ATM, but its just too abusable. hopefully he doesn't over-nerf it, or something. ((Lose an enchantment after use maybe?)) But yeah, we'll see.

More people have Wounding than res signet. =O Phill Gaston 11:51, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

If you include alliance battles as pvp, yes. There are like 6 critican sins on both teams combined with WS. Why would you turn down 1 deep wound every second? ~Shard (talk) 04:02, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Shard wins a cookie. (Just for the record, last I checked WoW didn't have a metagame either. Says something, even with the item hierarchy of shittiness and the release of S2 buyable with honor, don't it?) -- Armond Warblade 00:57, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

yeah and what is pvp in WoW? its a large scaled random arena --Cursed Angel 01:01, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

I'd argue that AV is essentially a RA version of GvG, but it's not really worth the effort. Also, RA has a sort-of meta, maybe. :P -- Armond Warblade 01:36, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

A lot of the problem in this game comes with multi-classing, a MESMER should be a MESMER and not anything else, A Ranger Dervish should never be able to beat a real dervish ever. Warriors are considered extremely balanced in most situations, not because they are the oldest class in gw, but because they can run a bar with entirely warrior skills. Alot of imbalance stems from cross class bull shit that works because they have a skill pool of over 200 with attributes being the only moderator, and with runes its not a very good one. Shouts, chants, echos, and Weapon spells should have never been created because they are irremovable and have an influential power that tends to sway battles in the wrong direction. You know balance has failed when you see more people playing their secondary class with their primary attributes. Would you consider Wounding strike imbalanced if the dervish couldn't use Conjure? Also would you have had to nerf SoH or mantra of inscriptions if a mesmer couldnt abuse them? It would take alot more creative planning if you couldnt multi-class and had to actually play your class.--99.153.226.11 05:58, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

a lot of cross-class builds can be balanced, especially if you're a caster and 2ndary monk so you can equip a self-heal in case a war thinks it's a good idea to hit you--Sum Mesmer Guy contribs 06:53, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Which is why monks exist in the first place. How many organized teams do you see with Warriors Eles necros bringing anything other than self condition removal? Nobody pecs /mo for a self heal, that is the monks job. --99.153.226.11 07:08, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

99 brings up a good point - the secondary classes have been the source of a lot of imba builds. I would disagree however, that they be discontinued. They can be balanced, but playing the primary class must have ore advantages than it does right now. Primary attribs should be bonuses, not requirements, to builds. -- nüklaer | VII | selfless self promotion 18:51, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Nuklear also wins a cookie (and a better sig but he changed it back so no need for that :p)I love the secondary prof mechanic but the point is THIS : Elementalists have energy storage ==> exhaustion on there skills Rangers have expertise ==> more expensive skills Mesmers have fast casting ==> skills cast longer

3 examples but NOW what happens when a ranger with expertise uses dervish skills with a normal energy cost : Imba what happens when mesmers take non mesmer spelles (possibly not always) imba.And what happens when an elementalist doesnt use skills with exhaustion !! Thats right decent players call you noob with reason ! (ok the last thing wasnt a good example).But it does settle the point of nuclear and shard and me and whoever agrees/signs to this.Will you izzy ? Lilondra 18:14, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Totally agree. Secondary prof. abuse leads to a lot of imbalance. That said, I would disagree to a certain extent with what 99 said about mesmers having to be mesmers and all that, because one thing I love about Guild Wars is the creativity in some of the builds - for example, why can't a mesmer be a fast-casting ele (he still has to put up with the high energy costs and exhaustion)? But there's a fine line between builds which are a bit creative in how they mix classes and builds which abuse the way things work.

Automated Tournaments and AFK Abuse

Seems like 90% of the guilds that play the dead American and Asian AT slots are all 4 AFK players and 4 henchmen, ive even started one myself just to farm a few keys with some guildies, its gotten to the point now where even if you remove reward points for finishing with no wins they will still end up with atleast 2 wins from other guilds doing the same thing.

I know if it gets fixed i wont be doing myself any favors but its really out of hand currently and i think its due to get a lot worse as more people catch on, its about 20k worth of reward points per character which is an easy 80k per AT for someone who knows how to use multiple instances of GW, why bother making farming bots for PvE when you can just go AFK in PvP and earn much more, its a good job the Asian farming community hasnt picked up on this. Warlock 13:19, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I could be accused of running an afk guild, but the fact is we are there and play when appropriate, however when facing a top 300 guild, to get wiped and verbally abused (which is what often happened) puts us off to the extent that now we just go do something for that match and turn off local chat. Without the "afk" guilds as you call them, there would be times during the midweek night AT's where Noob Glads and Twinkle Twinkle would be by themselves.

The update

I'm all for the CV nerf, and the SoJ was well-deserved and justified, but you didn't hit Shadowsteps hard enough. Now, I don't know if you thought they were only a problem at the stand, but in ganking situation, they are still murderous. A friend of mine is just rofling and screaming "they didn't do zilch! I can rape still!". Needless to say, he abuses AoD.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - you need to add some penalty to shadowsteps. -- NUKLEAR IIV 07:53, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I will not say it again, the penality is called aftercast delay. 87.189.198.133 08:35, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

That's not a penalty. That's just diluting the effect. I can still gank without any sort of worry with AoD. A penalty would be increased energy cost, sacrifice, a powerful blackout - aftercast is hardly troubling. -- NUKLEAR IIV 10:59, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

This update weakened shadow step melee spikes, which is a good thing. Unfortunately, that's all it did. ~Shard (talk) 22:49, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Nuclear's ideal updates:

• Wounding Strike: Added 7% .
• Aura of Displacement: Added 10% . User now sacrificess 10% max. health when cancelling AoD
• Rending Touch: Added 15% .
• Escape: Added 5% .
• Ursan Blessing: Added 95% , and 10% to all Ursan Skills.

I do agree, though, that the aftercast was a bit clunky. Not to mention that the Shadow Walk nerf has no effect on builds which start with a skill (e.g. Iron Palm, Palm Strike) since by the time you've used it your attack skills will have recharged (though imo it's not such a big deal since Palm Strike is a bit UP anyway).

Wounding needs more than 7%, sacrifice on escape is pointless, that's exactly what AoD needs, and UB is better off that way. Tell me with a straight face that sacrifice can't be used as a great tool for balancing so I can have a good laugh. -- NUKLEAR IIV 14:34, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Assassins in General..

hey izzy, it seems that for the past few months assassins are only getting nerfed, i think the problem isnt the fact that most of the skills are overpowered(cept a certain few) but i think its that alot of people just run gimmicks and play assassins alot more in pvp, of course 3 or more signet of judgement deadly arts sins are going to kill you as you will be on the ground for 90% of the time.. you know that limiting the number of professions per party in pvp would solve most of the problems, just look at the past, you see paraway,sf way, a party comprised solely of sins... if there was a limit on professions per party, perhaps 2 then this would allow for more constructive and diverse gameplay, instead of everyone running "cookie cutter" builds. anyway u should make like a testing weekend/week with a profession limit, im sure you will notice amazing diversity and balance(along with some Q_Qing)

anyhow, i dont think that assassins(or any other profession) should have to pay the price just because everyone is using the same profession and build and people get tired of it..

as for shadowform, pvp version is fine, pve version needs to be reverted back to when it was 21 secs, the buff in duration allowed for a/e builds in every direction, thats the reason why u nerfed it to 50% less dmg in the first place right? i dont get why you dont change it back to 21 secs, it was difficult to perma shadowform(especially when u lagged) also it allowed for 2ndary proffessions,eles in particular, to make use of it.. i dont get why you buffed it in the first place, you should have known better.. now assassins and assassin secondary proffesions who use shadowform are paying the price, along with the 55/600 monks in the uw. if u changed it back to 21 secs, it would still be troublesome to get to the chaos planes, due to natures renewal on a a/me, because you would be standing there for 6 secs while charged darknesses run up to u and use shock.. --Arrythmia 22:37, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Limiting professions in a group will solve nothing. People will run 2 A/Mo and 2 Me/A and 2 Mo/A. The problem is the skills alone. ~Shard (talk) 22:47, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

it would solve the effectiveness of gimmicks, ask yourself this, why would a mesmer play as a half assed assassin, when they could just shutdown people.. and if you were implying that shadowsteps were a problem, yes i agree about that, but other than that, this would solve alot of problems.. im not saying get rid of skill balances at the same time--Arrythmia 23:03, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

why did he nerf shadow prison? why did he nerf shroud of silence? why did he nerf certain paragon skills? because everyone was running the same build and profession... and that the gimmicks are redundant and some are overpowered. no one can disagree that this would allow for an increased diversity of builds and gameplay, not just 8 people spamming the same skill, thats about as bad as ursan--Arrythmia 23:08, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm not gonna argue, because I'm 100% correct on this: Limiting the number of professions per team will solve nothing. Name me ANY gimmick build and I'll tell you how it'll get bypassed. ~Shard (talk) 05:46, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

IWAY? :O --71.229.253.172 06:27, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

W/R, W/R, R/W, R/W, Mo/N orders (or D/N), N/Rt, N/Rt, Rt/Me. Easy.

Limited the number of professions per team would require more of a structured type of PvP which isn't in PvP at the moment. I don't PvP very often but having limits like that would be just wrong. Balance not limit. 000.00.00.00 08:13, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

The best way to keep classes in check is to have non-stacking effects. For example, Warriors rely heavily on Deep Wound to get kills. This is a virtual 100 damage but does not stack, so the power you get from multiple Warriors is generally diminished. Shatterstone is another good example of non-stacking damage. One Shatterstone Ele is perhaps the most powerful spell based damage dealer in the game but more than one of them will either have to hit different targets or lose damage. On the other hand, Searing Flames gets stronger the more of them you have, and that's proven to be a really bad thing. Assassins are similar because the more of them you have, the more rediculous split tactics you can pull off. It doesn't even matter if they are Assassin primary. All they need is a build that can Shadowstep and kill a target in around 5 seconds. R/A can do this, E/A, W/A, Rt/A, Mo/A, D/A, etc... There are viable gank builds for all of those combinations that use Shadowstepping... Not necessarily using daggers. --TimeToGetIntense 19:58, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Time demonstares a textbook example of Win. -- NUKLEAR IIV 13:46, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

mmmkaaaayyy.. uhh i can pretty much guarantee that x profession + assassin secondary doesnt = instapwn, if you find yourself getting owned by a mo/a then phail less, plai moar. but all jokes aside, an assassin primary can do 3x better playing as AN ASSASSSIN(his primary) with the benefits of runes,and being able to put attributes into critical strikes,then he can relying solely on the secondary profession. the way you are saying it, its as if you are implying that any class can play as effectively as thier secondary then they would as thier primary. if you have any problems with this established fact that a class is 9/10 better playing as its primary then 2ndary, then ill gladly take on any mo/a,r/a,rt/a,w/a,me/a,e/a with my assassin to do away with these myths 9/10 ill win(unless of course u just use a warrior to shadowstep to me and use glads and ripostes =p) and i know that there are builds that mix well with the shadowstepping, but a class is usually more valuable to a balanced team playing as thier primary with only having the 2ndary to be a useful addition, i know shadowstepping is a problem, it is confirmed. oh and shard, stating that you are 100% correct without any constructive reply merely shows the people on here(and izzy) that either, you are mindset,and cannot fathom other opinions besides your own,you are ignorant,and do not wish to have anything to do with any other opinions other than your own...orrr you are right,but if you are right, please write a constructive,convincing,and non-eletist response instead of claiming that everyone else is wrong and should follow your opinions on a whim without giving any essence of a reason to do so. oh and as a wise man once said "a skill with a counter doesnt necessarily mean balance" just because these "gimmicks" have a counter, doesnt mean that everyone should have to worry about seeing the same redundant and inconstructive buildwars over and over again and bring certain skills pertaining to those builds just to counter them because the gimmicks are common.--Arrythmia 23:33, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Try that again, only try making sense this time... Yo do realize that some sin builds are actually stronger with another primary, don't you...? -- Armond Warblade 11:50, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

oh rly? name one that can completely shutdown a character for 12secs and kill them in 8-10 secs. i dont mean to get off the main topic but perhaps u were referring to something such as a r/n or something gimmicky that only works with 2 or more people.--24.154.188.10 01:06, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

How do you do it?

Before all the qqers read this post; understand that this is'nt a flaming post but a question. After every mistake in balancing you have done to guildwars, how can you still have your job? I really cant see how you are fit for the position as skillbalancer. This is not how the skills should look like Just to make things clear; i did not post this to flame you. But i REALLY want to know how you still have your job after all this. The majority of the playerbase pretty much hate you due to bad balance. And, if i can find a job where i can terribly suck at, still get my payment and no possibility of getting fired. I'd love to know the amazing tactic of doing that :').15:44, 12 July 2008 (UTC) edit: its mehOni 15:44, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

God your an asshole. i'd like to see you balance the game half as good as he does. its not his job to make YOU happy, its to change/nerf/buff skills that are unused/superpowerful/crappy. its dumb how people hate him because he nerfs thier build, or buffs another one so the old one sucks in comparison....did i mention your an asshole? play the game and dont flame, yes, flame the people who try to keep this game alive. God. /endrant File:Joshthorsig.jpgJoshThor Talk 17:08, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

What? His job is to balance the game. Correct? Tell me what area in the game is balanced. none is. TA=wod and shit like that GvG= lol so much sinsplit anyone? PvE= dont even have to go into that HA= sway anyone? HB= Use wiki build or lose kthx. No. he is not a good balancer. and people who want him to be keep doing suggestions all the time, but he just makes the game weirder (buff barbed spear was soo needed amirite?)Oni 17:21, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) Oni, what exactly are you trying to achieve with this? Getting banned again? For the third time in 2 weeks? This is not going anywhere. If you want to improve things don't post things like this but post suggestions instead. Oh and Josh, there are problems in the game. Some of which Izzy introduced. However, with the last few updates Izzy seems to be on the good path. Therefore I think both of you are not right. There is no point in saying Oni is an asshole either. Dark Morphon(contribs) 17:24, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

I am not violating the rules by asking am i morphie? i really want to know. i asked my friends about it. hell, i even asked you. noone knew. so i ask him.Oni 17:27, 12 July 2008 (UTC) Edit: this is the best update he did in... a year? that doesnt make him a good balancer tbhOni 17:32, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

"GvG= lol so much sinsplit anyone?" Someone doesn't GvG. Sinsplit went away a long....long...time ago. DarkNecrid 23:10, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

fail. noOni 23:27, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

uh? lol? sinsplit went away months ago dude. No one has complained abou tit at all...because no one uses it. Maybe in ATs to farm people as a joke (no one cares about ATs), or maybe on the ladder (which people shit around on anyways), but no one uses it seriously because it sucks now. Dervsmite is the new broken thing. l2keep up with meta DarkNecrid 05:04, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Oni is right in either case. Izzy's job is to balance an online game, and he hasn't been doing it for over two years. Anet doesn't like firing people, I guess. That's the trick Oni, get a job with a game company who doesn't care about their games. You'll never get fired. ~Shard (talk) 08:04, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

I wrote that gvg was not balanced. dark please stop being bad. sinsplit can still rape entire base without dying. its just that dervsmite is easier. Instead of just sitting yar ass on obs, try playing; the sec yar encounter a decent sinsplit you lose. Cba to keep arguing about a boring argument tho, get a better one or shushie. Thx for advice shard :P! -signs up as armor designer while not knowing a damn about it- Oni 09:09, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

grow up 87.189.202.130 10:03, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Sure, sisplit is gone, but it is still viable. People seem to be forgetting this. Any decent sin can still rape all of your base. It just takes a lot of balls. -- NUKLEAR IIV 13:45, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Oni, he might have done things that are bad in the past few years but let's not look back and try to do something about it shall we? We should help Izzy a bit, to make this game we all play somewhat better. Oh and about that thing about saying this: this is a dangerous comment to make if you're just unbanned, you know how the admins work here ;). Dark Morphon(contribs) 15:49, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

if they try to ban me ill put a npa sign showing the rules and stick it up their face. im not doing anything wrong by asking this. and dude. Just look at izzys talkpage. its FILLED with suggestions. check the wounding strike post (where he says its balanced..) he just does not listen to themOni 18:21, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
stop trolling
Well, if they think things like Wounding Strike are balanced, they better buff everything so the current meta-game isn't so...meta. Phill Gaston 07:18, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

While sinsplit as we knew it (aka Me's gold cape version) does not exist, dedicated splits are viable and common. There are many guilds (mostly euro and some of the builds they run are pretty wacky - go figure) that I know of at the r300-rwhatever range that are split dedicated. Some of them still use one assassin or teleporting skills, while some do not. Dedicated splits will continue to be far more effective than it was due to VoD/ViO mechanics. Whether you agree this is a good thing or think that GvG should be 8v8 oriented isn't really the issue at hand. 4v4 balance/smaller scale balance, on the other hand, is something that needs to be taken a look at especially with the dedicated splitting builds that are somewhat prolific. There's a need for reevaluation. People are trying to point this out and are getting frustrated by the lack of attention. PlacidBlueAlien 18:20, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm not talking about sineptitude. I'm talking about sinsplit, using AoD sins to rape a base in 5 minutes with total invincibility. That, my friend, is most sertainly not viable. -- NUKLEAR IIV 08:52, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

It's viable, you mean to say it's not balanced. In fact, in a game based on staying alive, I'd say 100% invincibility is outright cheating. ~Shard 09:02, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Sometimes I wonder why the ArenaNet staff members / company employee's even bother having talk pages, look at the idiotic crap that get's said on all of these pages. Baddock

+1 --SK 11:08, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I can explain everything. Anet hasn't fired him, because they realize that balance is pratically an impossible task (personally, I think it might be impossible, without getting into a rock, paper, scissors mold). Have you ever tried to balance a game even 1/10th the size of GW? What seems like a good idea at the time can blow up in your face. Izzy's job is to think of all the possible abuses a skill could have when he changes the balance, essentially trying to outsmart thousands of intelligent people. StatMan 04:29, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Shadow Step Nerf..WTH(!?)

Seriously, why nerfing Shadow Stepping skills?
I mean what do you think you use these skills vs Oni's "beloved" SinSpike:

Aegis (PvP)

Spiteful Spirit

Empathy

Tainted Flesh

This that's enough to take care of any Dagger using Sin..
For Scythe-based Assassins..use Shadow of Fear..1.75×1.5=2.625s attack interval!
That will also do against Scythe-way.
Furthermore: Well of Darkness + Suffering..
See? If you just stop Q_Q'ing the whole f*cking time and start looking for counters
you can fine a bunch of counters in just 2mins.
Ohw, and about Wail of Doom,
take Backfire, 10% Max HP Sacrifice + Aprox. 100 Dmg ain't worth the 1...3...4 seconds Wail of Doom lasts.

All Build have counters..just stop whining and start looking,
I'm sure you'll find someway to make a potent Necro Build that can prove useful
in countering at least 3 different Builds ='] (Rezu Blackheart 20:48, 13 July 2008 (UTC))

Aegis isn't a counter for shadow stepping.

Spiteful Spirit? Empathy? They do 40 damage, scythes do 150. Hexes are removable, enemy weapons aren't.

Tainted flesh stops 500 damage dagger combos?

Shadow of fear does not stop damage, it lengthens the time between damage taken. A spike doing 600 damage will still do 600 damage.

Backfire is a counter for Wail of Doom? Yeah I'm sure that necro is gonna be afraid of the 15 damage they'll take from your level 0 backfire, if it doesn't get interrupted or removed first.

Read a game balance article somewhere before you post again. Having a counter does not make a skill balanced. ~Shard (talk) 23:03, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

damn right! stop QQing about shadowsteps and use counters against it like tainted flesh and empathy --Cursed Angel 23:09, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

@ Shard Aegis doesn't counter Shadow Stepping but it DOES counter a Sin's Melee Attacks,
if it's Lead of Off-Hand attack got blocked or interupted he has to with like 30-45s
for it's entire attack chain (including his Shadow Step Skill) to recharge.
SS & Empathy do low damage, but if used the right was can cause a lot of pressure.
Backfire is cast BEFORE Wail of Doom, so it won't be 15 dmg like you said Shard..
Tainted Flesh is a pressure skill as well, it puts pressure on the monks,
as they will have to remove Disease from their entire team,
at the risk it'll be back before that condition removal skill(s) are recharged.
Result: Monks run out of energy, when they do, that panic,
When the Monks panic, the team panics, ending up in the whole team screwing up.
Ohw, and about your 600 Damage combo, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't EVERY SINGLE MONK use THIS Skill?
With that on you it'll hardly be a 80dmg combo, making Orison of Healing enough to deal with it.

Furthermore, I like playing Sin in PvP, I know it's strengths and weaknesses well,
I personally find SS/Empathy a damn strong counter against any melee based build
Especially against Sins, who have a fast attacking weapon (often along with an IAS)
and the chance of Duel Striking, most Sins either immidiatly abort their attack
or die trying to kill the target anywayz


More for Shard: Come up with w/e skill you can name, I will find a counter for it,
Of course you can't be ready for EVERY SINGLE BUILD, but a well Balanced Team
should be able to reach ±50% chance of victory..There isn't such a thing as an invincible build
and that will never happen, but Strong Builds DO exist.(Rezu Blackheart 23:42, 13 July 2008 (UTC))

So the 8 best players in the game only have a 50% chance of winning? I can tell you didn't read any balance articles like I told you to. gamedev.net is a good place to start. I won't even bother responding to that wall of crap you posted until you follow my advice. When you can talk about game balance competently, I will listen to you. ~Shard 23:59, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Aggreed with Shard, fail less and learn about balance. And don't put so many empty lines between your text, tyvm. Dark Morphon(contribs) 07:58, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

What shard said. Go learn the game before claiming your half-arsed opinions as facts. Oh, and while you're at it, go get fragged by a decent sinsplit, then come back. -- NUKLEAR IIV 09:12, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Why do you guys thing what "Izzy doesn't listen to any suggestions done by players"?
Let's guess..Maybe it's because too many ppl are just Q_Q'ing like a 3 months old, until Izzy gives them what they want??
The -way suffix is always added to a FotM-Build, a build of which are no know counters (yet)
At first ppl were actually looking for counters against these builds,
nowadays ppl just Q_Q here until next months Skill Nerf, and flame Izzy like Hell if he doesn't nerf it..(Rezu Blackheart 10:30, 14 July 2008 (UTC)) stop being bad. stop it. now. tplease. im begging you. stop stop stop stop. thanks. a match should always be 50-50 of winning, and the team with the most skill should always win. if you have to grab a bounch of counters just to be able to fight one build. its overpowerd. do me a favor: Equip the D/E build Have a mate/hero to come and use SoH on you. Go to 80/60 hp target kill it in 3 hits.

Yeah. you are so right. wounding strike/scythes does'nt need a nerf. sorry. we guys just suck dont we? :'). I agree with everyone else. learn about balance, learn about the game before you go talk big. because this is just laughable. btw: page needs archiveOni 10:39, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Rezu Blackheart, if you have to take specific skills to counter specific builds, thats not Guild Wars, its Build Wars. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 12:10, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Rezu, all your arguments are irrelevant. Like Shard said, something having a counter does not make it balanced. The question is, does shadow stepping improve GW's PvP, or does it hurt GW's PvP? It hurts PvP as it removes one of the most important (and skill requiring) elements of that game mode - the concern about positioning yourself properly on the battlefield. If you like shadow stepping or not...Doesn't matter, since Arena Net cannot design their game based on one player's feelings. And if you cannot see the difference between a logic, reasonable argument about why ss is bad for the game and "Q_Q'ing"...Well, too bad for you, because this nerf shows that Arena Net actually agrees with said logic. Erasculio 12:17, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

something having a counter does not make it balanced is a garbage argument because I can say the opposite which is even more true, something having a counter does not make it inbalanced.. 87.189.252.115 13:20, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

just because a skill has counters doesn't mean anything. the working of the skill itself and how it's used is what matters--Sum Mesmer Guy contribs 15:31, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Having counters doesn't make a skill balanced

Having counters doesn't make a skill balanced

Having counters doesn't make a skill balanced

Having counters doesn't make a skill balanced

Having counters doesn't make a skill balanced

I've also come to the conclusion that Wail of Doom is more broken than prenerf SoGM. SoGM kills someone after 10 seconds, Wail of Doom does it instantly. ~Shard 09:06, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

I'd actually like to thank izzy/Anet for not testing Nightfall, and introducing Signet of Ghostly Might. It's the perfect example of a skill that had tons of counters, yet was still the most broken skill ever made. I enjoy throwing it in the faces of people who think things that have 1 counter are balanced. ~Shard 22:31, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Proof that Ursan is broken

This ought to be the only evidence you ever need for nerfing ursan. -- NUKLEAR IIV 17:06, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

....if it took people that long to realise that ursan can be used like that, its to late. Dominator Matrix 17:12, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Except you could play anything like that in PvE in Guild Wars.  ;) On a side note dealing with Ursan, I did Riverside Province the other day, in normal mode, and we had a level 20 warrior in Norn armor playing as Ursan and well the poor guy kept dying over and over again. Gotta love the idiots that run Ursan thinking it's godmode. lol ^_^ ~ Sabastian 02:57, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

If a level 20 warrior with max armour with the health and armour bonuses of ursan dies in riverside province in normal mode, your monk is shit to a point beyond human understanding. 90.58.71.59 04:28, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Monks are only effective if their teammates are in the range of their spells. Average Ursan users tend to run from mob to mob indiscriminately which generally leaves the weaknesses of Ursan fully exposed. Also, monks have to focus on up to 8 teammates, where Ursan do not. Teams are supposed to work as just that, a team. Ursan highlights a complete reliance on monks that a lot of players don't seem to understand. 000.00.00.00 04:36, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Which really throws that "invincibility" claim people make out the window. Ursan's is pretty weak without the rest of the team and most importantly, the monks. Though it does help point to just how dependent this game is on the monk class and how it pretty much revolves around the monks. So it is fair to say that the monks are pretty much the most powerful class in the game. ~ Sabastian 05:14, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

@90.58.71 Actually, the monk was pretty good. They made calls in regards as to who to focus on. The Ursan warrior wasn't doing that much damage as the other characters and over extending into multiple mobs so instead of wasting energy on him the monk chose to focus on the majority of the team for a much quicker trip through the mission. ~ Sabastian 05:22, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

in response to sebastian.... Or it proves that dumbasses will be dumbasses even if they have good gear and a good bar.... 24.141.38.88 05:23, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Personally, I've never said Ursan is invincible, but clearly overpowered on far too many levels. Its powerful but weaker in its self-sustainability, that comes naturally with the professions. But, when coupled in a pack of Ursans and monks they make professions irrelevant, which should really be the biggest reason for a killing blow to the skill. 000.00.00.00 05:24, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

plus i want my tormented shit to be worth something again...... 24.141.38.88 05:27, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Sebastian. that was THE most failing argument ever. If the guy was r8-10 norn, were a warrior with max armor+health.. that would make him a 800hpish 120armorish guy who could use AOE weakness to take like 30 damage each hit. oh wait, it was normal mode? Then it's like 20 damage. leet. HOW THE HELL DO YOU DIE? Also ursans alone DO heavy damage. It got earth shaker that does more damage and stuff like that. Just go to pvxwiki. how the hell did the ursan build get voted great when it is only 1 ursan skill and a bounch of stances just look at this shit. Although if you would call ursan solo overpowerd then pretty much all great voted builds are. The problem is when you have 6 ursans that instantgibs anything. And people are not wrong when saying it is godmode. let me repeat: 800ish hp 120ish armor AOE weakness=taking...20 dmg? each hit. dude... a fuckn orison of healing outdoes that. And saying ursan isnt overpowerd because he died due to running away from party.. thats like saying that ursanway is not overpowerd if some guys use ursanway and everyone just splits up and runs away from party, trying to solo the entire area. come back with a cuter argument kthxOni 12:51, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

the fact that you're still able to die while running it if you suck hard enough doesn't mean that it's not overpowered.--85.130.45.208 22:17, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Fast Cast Attribute

so im a monk and wen i want a 1/4 second or 1/2 second WoH i have to switch wepons and pray... but wen mesmers want a blind they pre-glyph and just steam defensively on spikes in 1/4 or 1/2 second cast? Whats up with that. Methinks FC attribute is due for a reworking. Only monks mesmers and warriors seem to get played anymore (mebbe ele or rits to). 24.141.38.88 05:19, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but can you repeat that. 000.00.00.00 05:51, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Hes referring to GvG and the current trend to use Me/E water mesmers just for the fast casting bonus, some people are also starting to use Me/Mo prot monks.

The problem here isnt that fast casting is broken, infact using the mesmer primary weakens most of the functions of the bar, in the case of the Me/E water mesmer you do have some perks like steam being a brilliant spike stopper but the real problem lies with powerblock being quite honestly broken.

If you play GvG at a decent level from time to time you notice these things a lot more, if you have a standard water elementalist you will find he spends 80% of the time powerblocked which really isnt right since thats a whole character slot being taken out of the game by just 1 elite skill on the mesmer, its not hard at all to hit a 1 second cast, some people might say fake casting is the way round this but that only works against bad mesmers.

It's very much the same for a prot monk in GvG, skills like aegis/RC/guardian are just too easy to powerblock, which is 14 seconds with no prot monk, that usually means deaths or atleast a retreat if the enemy team is even slightly adept.

You may be wondering why its only recently that powerblock has become so powerful, the reason being that monk bars have recently become heavier in a single attribute and midlines have shifted to water elementalists which are so easy to powerblock rather than air elementalists due to the desecration of the Bsurge bar. ¬ Warlock 14:33, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Pblock was always powerful,just like SoJ. -- NUKLEAR IIV 15:10, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

It was buffed not too long ago, it has always been powerful but as with SoJ its only actually been useful recently because of other skills being changed. ¬ Warlock 16:41, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

PBlock is not broken, Aegis is just really bad for the game. Aegis is so powerful that you need it to survive, but skills like PBlock and even PLeak make it an extreme liability, yet, you have no choice but to run it and hope it doesn't backfire and kill you. Aegis also makes the Monks bad on splits compared to the Monks of a split build, causing an extreme case of build wars. When Aegis hit the whole map it was actually better for the game despite the flag runners abusing it. At this point it needs to be made unviable for Monk primaries to unstagnate the metagame.

BTW, The way around Mesmers is and always has been to play back as far as possible to force them to overextend if they want to fuck with you. Also having a frontline who actually pressures midline and collapses on out of position characters. --TimeToGetIntense 14:30, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Ive also seen Me/Rt, channeling spikers, they spam skills like renewing surge (.5 sec cast time, deals like 70 damage) so 140 dps, get like 3 of em 420 dps + other members...rework fast casting, mebey so it only works on mesmer skills. ╙─ ╠Dogzrdogz╣ talk

0.5 cast time + 0.75 after cast delay makes it less then 70dps, which is why spamming flare doesnt work 76.26.189.65 21:58, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Random Balancing Idea

I know there are plenty of suggestions where you limit the number of one profession on a team, which really isn't a useful strategy for any sort of balancing against builds that aren't fun to play against. The problem is the skills themselves. Here's an idea that might not make it in GW1, but keep it in mind for GW2, perhaps as a balancing tool. Every time you get hit by a specific skill (spell or attack), if you get hit by the same spell or attack within one second, then it only does half-damage. A sort of multi-hit resistance. Of course, there might be exceptions, like attacks from a dual strike would be exempt. I don't know what skill types will survive for GW2 (and I'll assume Chants and Echos will be removed unless some new balance methods are introduced), but keep this in mind. Just throwing out ideas.--Skye Marin 08:42, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

That was mentioned about a mile above your post XD. It would work. Anet will never do it. ~Shard 08:59, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

its because it wont do anything, you dont need to use the same spell to spike 76.26.189.65 21:59, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

idea for weastrels collapse

completely revamp the skill like u did wail of doom, i suggest(best way to get this used in game) 5 energy,1 sec casting,15-20 sec recharge->skill description:"target foes is hexed with waestrels collapse, after 2 or 3 seconds target foe is knocked down and transported to your location.Waestrels collapse ends prematurely if that foe uses a skill". it would make a very interesting skill concept, balanced, reverse version of scorpion wire almost, leds to new spiking possiblities. can u plz consider it :P?74.186.169.130 15:39, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

No. Just no. No more shitty sinspikes please. Also, on the note of balancing, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG! Napalm Flame 15:41, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

how horrible would that be, cast that on a monk, blackout, recall, omfg where the hell did you just warp our monk to?!?! 76.26.189.65 22:01, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

IZZY DOESNT READ HIS PAGE

I'd like to bring it to everyone's attention that izzy does not read his page. I have proof of this.

1. He doesn't ever post. This doesn't mean he doesn't read, it's just an indicator of how much he doesn't care.
2. He doesn't take any of the suggestions. This explains why absolutely nothing got fixed in the last update.
3. He doesn't know who Shard, Nuklear, Armond, or Igor are, four of the people who post here the most.

So please, stop filling his page with brilliant suggestions. He doesn't read them, they just take up space. ~Shard 03:56, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm trying to find Regina's post where she said who he listens to, but I'm sure thats only the top guilds... which always struck me as odd. 000.00.00.00 04:02, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

oh, found it:

Izzy didn't want to make too many balance changes this time around because the GW Guru tournament is this weekend. He thought it would be a bit evil to make a lot of PvP skill balance changes just before a big tournament. Izzy regularly consults with players in top guilds, so he isn't making these changes without any input at all. --Regina Buenaobra Image:User Regina Buenaobra sig.png 16:13, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, he consults with some people at least. Personally, I think its a bit dodgy Arenanet can openly admit it consults with such players, considering they have a conflict of interest :P 000.00.00.00 04:05, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Players in top guilds are the ones abusing the broken shit he should fix. That's like asking OJ Simpson how to avoid murdering someone. ~Shard 05:09, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

It does seem very very dodgy, or can be taken in a dodgy way, which is enough to muddy ones reputation. 000.00.00.00 06:41, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Players in the top guilds "abuse" the shit, because they want to win. You can't expect people to have DF honor 24/7, especially with prizes. Play what wins, even if you don't like it and is broken. Divine doesn't like WoH, yet he is forced to use it in the meta. etc. Just because they use something, doesn't mean they like it. DarkNecrid 12:16, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

If Izzy is indeed spending his time talking to the experienced PvP players instead of reading this wiki page then that's actually a good thing. --Draikin 19:16, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

/agree @ Draikin! Nevertheless balancing in GW still fails and this won't change... A. von Rin 20:41, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

1. maybe this page is so filled with failure that he wont bother reading it. 2. ArenaNet:Skill feedback/Necromancer/Strip Enchantment i herd he changed it just as suggested. 3. igor post here? and if he don't know who u, shard of every ppl around here are, does it matter? --Cursed Angel 20:54, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

heey D: oni post here alot too shard -feels left out-. Another proof could be that he have'nt archived this fucking page yet.Oni 21:57, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Dark, you're misunderstanding what I meant. Players in top guilds abuse the shit, yes because they want to win. They probably tell him "1 deep wound per second per frontliner is fine because we want to win." "a character with 2 KDs recharging every 7 seconds is fine because we want to win." "Paragons are fine because we want to win."

Like I said, asking top players how to balance the game is like asking Obama who America should vote for. They're going to be heavily biased. ~Shard 22:12, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes I know, but he isn't talking to those kind of players. He's talking to people who know what they are talking about. Maybe they aren't Ensign (who really is?), but they want what is good for the game, and actively complain about all the same stuff you do or I do, so. DarkNecrid 22:34, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

No they don't. Of the less than 800 people who are core for top 100 guilds, how many of them do you think are actually good? 100 at best. The rest are one-build-wonders who got there because of (insert spammable energy aoe deep wound skill here) and (insert broken ranged frontline profession with heal parties here). The game's been this way for close to two years, there's a really high chance he's talking to the wrong people. ~Shard 23:09, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

It's always easier to blame others, isn't it? Especially easier to think of oneself as better and more intelligent than the one tasked with the job. If you think you can do alot better, why not apply for the job and oust Izzy? Renin 05:13, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Of course, it's very easy to accuse someone blaming anyone, especially when the said person has already stated that he would gladly take up the mantle of balncing. -- NUKLEAR IIV 09:48, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

It's easy to say, so how come no real action has that person done when that person thinks that they can do the job alot better? Renin 12:36, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the feeling I have isn't that Isaiah looks at the guild ladder and searches for the guilds that are at the top; rather that he talks to the same people he has always been talking to, who all happened to be on top ranked guilds once upon a time (for example, Isaiah often mentions talking to Ensign, although as far as I know he isn't in a "top" guild ladder-wise right now). This would avoid a bit the problem of talking with the guilds who are currently on top because they're abusing the most imbalanced builds. And besides, if Arena Net's skill balancer couldn't tell a skilled player from someone who's just pressing 1-2-3 to win, I don't think it would matter who he talks to anyway : P Erasculio 11:27, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

That would be correct, Erasculio. He doesn't talk to "entire guilds" or anything Shard, forgive me if I ever gave that impression. He talks to selective people. DarkNecrid 13:18, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

You guys are all speculating without any information. First off, I asked Izzy a few weeks back if he bothers with this page anymore. He said no. After he did that Strip Enchantment change that I suggested, he came on IRC and I asked him if he had taken my suggestion or if it was a coincidence. He didn't remember, responding with "I read a lot of things." Recently I tried to PM him, he was too busy/ignoring me because I'm baed. I speculate that he's very busy...

But anyway, here's what I know. He doesn't read this page anymore, but also I know that the top players don't want the game to be broken. They complain about the same shit they abuse because they are sick and tired of abusing it. This happens whenever Izzy comes on IRC, which is far too rare these days.

These are things I've observed on IRC. A handful of top players are there and they don't want the broken skills to remain broken. And it makes sense, actually. It is in their best interests for things like Paragons, Dervishes, SF Eles, Hexes and Signet Mesmers to be less powerful than more skill intensive builds because these are the players of the highest level. The more their skill and experience matters, the better for them, the less fluke matches they lose to shitters running gimmicks. --TimeToGetIntense 14:08, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I sincerely hope you aren't suggesting Shard that you are one of the best players in Guild Wars. You may be one of the most vocal on his pages but I'd imagine that is a contributing factor of why he just gave up on this. You have some good ideas on balance and some not so good but you made the whole thing into a personal crusade like so many others on this page. Dumping information around and expecting him to organize and keep tabs on this like a moderator was a bit naive when it was easier to hear out a select few. This might have been salvaged perhaps by the move and perhaps further moderation on the areanet namespace but this discussion really doesn't belong here. I'd say most if not half of the so called gimmick teams on the high end of the ladder are probably better than the majority of players elsewhere in their given format even when having to run balanced. They might have an inflated rank due to running the build but they still remain up there even without the gimmicks - quite frankly, even the best guilds aren't above to abusing the meta (df honour aside). This doesn't apply to everyone of course, for example, most heroway teams wouldn't be good without a hero running it (think bloodspike switched over.) Sure, running OP junk does get you higher on the ladder but only so far since you'll eventually encounter other OP junk that will smash your face in or you'll simply be outplayed because you aren't executing properly since your team is filled with a bunch of scrubs like me. PlacidBlueAlien 17:10, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

OMFG!?! — ク Eloc 貢 21:49, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

@renin: Because I don't live near their offices.

I'm not suggestion that I'm one of the best players. I'm certainly high up there, considering the average skill level in GW is Wounding Strike spamming and paragon t+spacing. How good someone is doesn't affect how well they can fix balance problems. I used to love GW because it was the best MMO on the market, but after too many thoughtless balance and game updates (and expansions), one of my favorite games turned into the game I least enjoy playing. My "crusade" is to get it back to the best MMO there could be.

"They might have an inflated rank due to running the build but they still remain up there even without the gimmicks"

That's why every month, guilds that came out of nowhere get trim and then disappear the next month or two, right? There are maybe 5 or 6 guilds that stay in the top 50 consistently. ~Shard 22:21, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Shard it's not helpful to Izzy for people to spam exagerated complaints on his page rather than using the system he put in place. I realize he stopped reading those, but spamming the fuck out of his main page just makes matters worse. You perhaps could have tried to be constructive but it's probably too late now. --TimeToGetIntense 22:28, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Izzy doesn't read his page, so spamming his page is irrelevant either way. If he's not reading his page, or going to read his page he should just make a note on his page and here so people aren't wasting their time. People come here hoping Izzy will read their concerns or suggestions, if he's not, and only talking to a select few to whom we don't know nor know of their intentions or agendas then at least he could do the honourable thing and say "Hey, I'm not reading this anymore..." 000.00.00.00 22:39, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

The guilds didn't come out of no where by the way. Sure, they weren't top 10 guilds or commonly talked about but they were present on the ladder. If you look back, you'll see that they won mainly because of the newly added ViO/VoD since they were running sineptitude before that got implemented. Fairly positive that the top guilds were aware of them. For example, currently, Mistral Edge is sitting around r26 (somewhat active?). PlacidBlueAlien 23:53, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

He has more experienced Guild Wars players to listen to. He's trying to take the meta away from defense without completely killing a playstyle too fast for players to adapt. — Skakid 22:44, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Failing to see why that would be a problem. If you can't adapt to a major game update, you're not going to excel anyway. Who cares if people suddenly find they can't get their assassin through shing jea without thinking anymore? -- Armond Warblade 01:56, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

He's trying to take the meta away from defense? No he's not. Forget that he doesn't read wiki, as a game balancer (a professional one at that) he should know what's going on in the game. He clearly doesn't, because he doesn't play and he doesn't care.

Another great game killed by the idiots who maintain it, not just izzy. ~Shard 02:25, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Eh. I think they have something up their sleeve....the last patch was small for the Guru tournament, and didn't break anything because he actually listened to people. No insane nerfs. No insane buffs. A change was bad (The Shadowstep one wasn't very complete or totally thought out (beguiling haze & Shadow Walk w/ Shove ftwwwww)), but that can be remedied and was still better than no change to that mechanic. Did it avoid the issues? Yeah, because of the Guru tournament. But that patch in general gave me hope for the next one. That's probably the first patch where he didn't overbuff or overnerf anything because he listened to the right people. I just wish he could have done more and stuff, but Guru tournament. Eh. DarkNecrid 11:02, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

"He doesn't know who Shard, Nuklear, Armond, or Igor are, four of the people who post here the most." Just because he doesn't know a bunch of losers who cry about the game all day instead of playing it, doesn't mean he doesn't read his page or care about skill balance. He probably just does like the rest of us do and assumes anything posted by you trolls will just be more QQing and poorly thoughout suggestions to try and cover for you sucking at the game. Grow up, you noobs are hardly any good at amking helpful suggestions to him. 67.159.44.91 13:07, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Would you like me to explain why, or should I save my breath? -- Armond Warblade 13:42, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

maybe he has a point, maybe u are wrong. it's pretty clear why izzy doesn't bother reading through this shit so why argue? 95% of this page is a joke --Cursed Angel 16:31, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

especially anything that dork armand says LOL wut a nooblet 75.151.48.190 18:27, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

That's a crude way of putting it, but I guess he did walk right into it this time didn't he? XD 67.159.44.91 19:53, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Just because he doesn't know a bunch of losers who cry about the game all day instead of playing it, doesn't mean he doesn't read his page or care about skill balance. He probably just does like the rest of us do and assumes anything posted by you trolls will just be more QQing and poorly thoughout suggestions to try and cover for you sucking at the game.

"Crying" is what 12 year olds who don't know how to make an argument call it. People with brains call it "complaining."

Poorly thought out suggestions? You must have mistaken us for Arenanet.

I was top guilded many times, while the game was in its more balanced periods, so I'm pretty sure I don't "cover for sucking at the game."

The fact is, if you still think the game is balanced and good people win, you're either a total moron, or you've never played a game before. EVERYONE who has done serious pvp KNOWS the game is broken pretty much everywhere you look. ~Shard 07:27, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

The game is far from balanced, partially because Izzy isn't in touch with actual players but instead a handfull of brownnosers who only want to see skills nerfed one way or another because it will benifit the class(s) or playstyle they use the most, and partially because some of those same people have convincez Izzy that each class should only have one use or purpose and they should be nerfed till that's the only thinn the class can viably do. Years ago the game had options, now it's the mess it is today where the pre-teen boys playing Warriors run everything because anything that required skill has been destroyed.

The problem is, like you admited yourself, you're not in the top anymore and obviously not as good as you think you are. You've played four of the ten professions and one of them barely at all. The only character you've even played enough to sort of know enough about to make balance suggestions is the Monk, since you haven't even spent much time on your Warrior or Ranger. You make constant mistakes about stuff, looking over your talk page and archives shows how many times you've been called out on your screwups and I can't see how someone who hasn't got any esperiance with more than half the classes in the game and who obviously don't know much about the skills, should even think about trying to make balance suggestions about the game. If you leard the skills and the classes, and get back into the top again, then you might warrent some respect or at least your suggestions might be worth reading by Izzy or any of the rest of us posters or lurkers. You spend more time flaming other people than you do trying to make well thoughtout suggestions, and when you do you're usually just trying to get skills removed from play that you don't like. XD 67.159.44.91 13:24, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Your first paragraph I followed just fine. Your second paragraph was just a bunch of crap about how you think Shard doesn't know what he's talking about and provided bullshit for backup. Shard's only played four of the ten classes? Ok, even assuming you're right and he's never randomly played a rit or ele or something like that (I'm not entirely sure which are the six), bear in mind that Ensign plays... ele. And sometimes flagger. Oh, and he had a bout of tained necro-ness in HA for a bit. And that's about it, as far as I know (and I've obsed dR a lot). The rest he just... doesn't play that much. Do you really think Ensign doesn't know how to balance Dervishes or Assassins? Or that Auggie or Chiizu (sp?) don't know how to fix WoD necros? Who cares what, specifically, you play, so long as you have knowledge of what you're talking about?

Also, please point me to where Shard's been flaming people or making mistakes about balance and, when they're pointed out, lashed out at the people pointing them out - I only seem to see people making dumb comments on his talk pages. -- Armond Warblade 15:47, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

You're kidding right? Just go to his talk page, click the archives, and you can't miss them all. You're even involved in one of the discussions on the top of the second archive, trying to stick up for your boyfriend Shard when he gets called out on some of his mistakes. XD Also, you can click Shard's page to see where he lists all four of his characters and even how much he plays them, so that is just way obvious. Just randomly playing a class doesn't mean you know anything about them, that's your problem and the problem with your little circle jerk buddies who spam up this page all the time. You've never played a class for hundreds of hours through all builds and possibilities to actually know all the skills the class has and how they actually work in real game play and because of that you shouldbn't even begin to try and balance something you don't understand at all. You think you can give advice on something you don't know about and you end up looking dumber than normal. Anyone, even this Ensign person, should not be talking balance or pretending to know how a class works until they have played the class enough to know it inside and out.

As for Shards flaming, just look around you can even find it on this page. He may not tell people to fuck off quite as much as you do when you're spamming attacks on people you don't agree with, but they are clear to see right here on the wiki.

You really should not try to defend Shard and his lack of game knowledge when all I see are people putting you in your place on this page for having no idea what you;re talking about all the time. Also I know English is not my first language so maybe that makes my second paragraph harder for you to read but given how much people around here point out all your mistakes I think maybe I should agree with them that you just don't know what you are talking about and are just some hypocrite with too much time on his hands and just troll this wiki. 67.159.44.91 16:52, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

You don't know who Ensign is, and you continually try to get a rise out of me with slights to my character while trying to defend your clearly incorrect assumptions (you need to play a class for hundreds of hours to understand how its skills work and whether they're balanced or not; hah! that's a good one). I rest my case. -- Armond Warblade 21:07, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

How is it I am continually try to get a rise out of you when I did not reply to your previous post to me and only replyed to you above because you made such long reply to me. You tried to defend Shard when he provides proof to back up all that I said on his page and I corrected you and yes I did make fun of you trying to defend someone when I see other people putting you in your place so much on this page but unlike Shard I did not read your page and all your archives yet so I don't know much about you other than what I see on this page where you insult people flame and get corrected for your wrong points several times.

I do think you need to know a class inside and out and use all the skills and play through the game to know enough about the class to make judgments. If you are to lazy to try and get a feeling for a class then that is your own misfortune but does not change that you know less about the class then someone who knows all skills and has used them and lots of builds in different ways and places. If you want to think it's a joke to know the class you want to balance then you show how much of a joke you are. I play WoW very little and while I know much about playing a Warlock I do not know them well enough to say how they should be balanced because I have not made a max level one yet and until I do and get experiance from playing everywhere then I don't be ignorant enough to try and claim I know all about the class and how it works and should work just from 70 or more hours playing one. You do this and your ignorance shows. I know better than to make myself look such a fool as you do. 67.159.44.91 00:37, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Limited internet time so only making a partial response. I've been called a loser, a dork, gay, an idiot, and more, all by various number folk that I can't be assed keeping track of (especially when some of them don't sign). I'd say that's "continually trying to get a rise out of me".

You're also rather dumb if you think the only way to get to know a class is by playing it, much less for several hundred hours. You shouldn't need a max level warlock to know that they're broken as hell, between fear, DoTs, and free tanks for leveling (in WoW being hit disrupts your spellcasting, making it take longer). -- Armond Warblade 03:30, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Man, people, lay off Izzy's back. If you want him to participate w/ the community, dont bash him everytime you dont like something. I agree that he dropped the ball and crapped his pants in the process a couple times, but no one is gonna come home to an abusive family. Besides, He's probably just getting some ATM, and No one would choose a day w/ GW over getting some. Let him enjoy himself. =O

And thats WURD.

Phill Gaston 19:30, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I'd guess he's blowing off steam in HB. -- Armond Warblade 21:07, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

67.159, most of your post said "I'm the King of England, I'm the King of England, I'm the King of England" but with no proof or backup. Why do you think I "obviously know nothing about skills?" Why do you think I "play four professions, and one hardly at all?" You're assuming being in a top guild is somehow connected with being good. News Flash: It's not.

Retype your entire post again, but this time with facts and logic.

I bet 67.159 is onoosh or aramail. That would be an epic lol. ~Shard 23:49, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

My entire post was facts. Facts about your characters that I got from your userpage, facts about your mistakes and poor knowledge of the skills got from your talk page and talk page archives and facts I got from you own posts here on this page. You said I was top guilded many times as reasoning for why you think you are good enough to make skill balance suggestions not me so aparently you think that makes you qualified, I don't. Also I never said I was qualified either, you claim I said I was much better at it then you but you are wrong. There are still parts of game I have not yet explored enough and things I can leran. You think you know it all alreay but you clearly do not. Even Izzy can see you don't know what you are talking about and because of this he ignores you and won't let you into his little club of elitists who he takes advice from. If he won't and he though you wern't as ignorant with game as you are then you would not have ever made this section. XD 67.159.44.91 00:20, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

So you're assuming I only play the characters on my user page? LOL nice joke. WTS credibility 100k, got plenty in stock, you need some. In pvp, there's this thing called "create PvP character," which lets you make a max level character with all skills and equpment unlocked. I use those almost every day.

Yeah I'm sure I "clearly" am bad and i "clearly" don't know anything about the game.

I'm also "clearly" the King of England and am "clearly" made of magical cookies. Do you know what an argument is? It's this thing where people can't read your mind, so you have to explain why you have your opinions.

Every time there's a 12 year old who disagrees with me on wiki, they always cry and tell me that I'm bad and stupid etc, but to this day, none of them have had any proof or even an indication of me being bad or wrong about balance. ~Shard 01:35, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

^you hurd the man hes right (and not just for once).Lilondra 10:04, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Any1 who thinks GW is unbalanced... go try WoW... u can be stunned for the duration of ure deth, and more that i dont care to explain. 24.141.43.157 04:24, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

L O L you know now the dervish class inside and out. L O L You now know the entire necromancer class inside and out. L O L You know the assassin class inside and out. L O L YOu know know the entire mesmer class inside and out. Have i made my point or do you need to learn more class mechanics?--Shadowsin 05:01, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

WoW is not a pvp game. That's why it isn't balanced for pvp.

Also, I'm pretty sure conjure frost is an ele skill, not a dervish skill. Wounding Strike is the most used skill in the game now (or very close), which is bad, especially considering it's an offensive skill. ~Shard 07:56, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

WoW having shitty PvP balance (and gear - grinding BGs, which require about as much work as grinding glad points, gets you gear the equivalent of several month's raiding, but without the knowledge of PvE, including, zomg, field vision) isn't an excuse for GW to have shitty balance (in both PvE and PvP). -- Armond Warblade 12:56, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

We really should make special change list, censor out the idocity, and mail it to izzy's E-Mail...

Some of the BS I've seen here is quite extraordinary. My favourite bit is when some idiot prefers to ignore the existence of a common human attribute - Logic.

You see, humanity uses logic and grey matter to theorize and extrapolate when one cannot experience a certain theory, idea, or hypothesis. Because some people *LeGasp* can actually use their minds properly, outright condemnation of extrpolation is, to put it mildly, senile. While it is logical (c wut I did thar) to condemn theories whne practise proves them wrong, I have not seen any proper practise waved about.

In other words, stop being bad, stop calling shard an idiot, go lern who ensign is, get some logic or experience (maybe both) under your belt, stop trying to discredit anyone (NPA much?) and stop being bad. QfuckingQ. -- NUKLEAR IIV 13:56, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Shard, When you see Wounding strike it is normally preceded by conjure frost, conjure flame or conjure lightning, thats why i included it.--99.153.226.11 14:26, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

In my guild our anti melee has corrupt enchantment and we NEVER face any trouble with Wounding Strike i WONDER WHY..

Probably because hexway is a slightly more OP gimmick than WS spam. ~Shard 06:33, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

The day shard or ensign or auron or armond or whoever has brains (even nuklear for ---'s sake) balances gw ppl might even play this game and GW2 might be bought by the gw veterans instead of nubs and ppl who are to greedy for WoW,AoC,Diablo III or any other game that doesnt suck this much because of ---.Ive started this game with factions so that means ill never be real good and ill never get higher then mediocre.but EVEN I REALISE that WS is OP.Now if izzy did Read this page and his other pages then we would notice it.Check pve only skills (THEY SHOULDNT EXIST) and check how many issues he has watched there ? o wait he hasnt fixed the MOST BROKEN THING IN THE GAME.This carebear is more OP then chuck norris and paragons TOGETHER.Lilondra 09:53, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm overly amused that Shard made a section specifically to cry about Izzy not listing to him and his friends because even Izzy can see they don't actually know enough about the game to be worth his time, and when people point this out to them they get offended and try and explain how 1337 they are, even though they already admited to not being good enough by making such a section to begin with. Then when people point out all their mistakes they ignore them and pretend they don't exist, even though it's right there for everyone to see. This just amuses me to no end. Okay, I'm done. I know that's not constructive, but then again crying about not being good enough to be on Izzy's list isn't either. LOL
Edit:
Okay, I'll make this somewhat of a constructive post, for those who are crying over Woulding Strike in PvP. Why not just take advantage of skills like Foul Feast + Plague Sending (which can be complimented by other good Curses skills like Faintheartedness, Enfeebling Blood, Defile Defences (great against those R/Ds), or you can simply use Restore Condition (since it's overpowered as is, and yes even I who plays a Protection Monk most of the time have to admit this). Then again, if people were really concerned with the spirits (Nature's Renewal, Tranquility, or any of the Rit Spirits) that get used like that, they'd just let the Mesmer bring Unnatural Signet and that issue would be over in seconds. LOL Guess that takes common sence though, doesn't take skill to take those simple measures (that are so viable in a multitude of situations and which doesn't hinder the team at all), but I guess it's common sence that's lacking these days. Easier to cry Nerf I suppose. Sad that the game's players have come to this. 75.151.48.190 20:57, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

First part: The fuck are you talking about? Where has anyone ever proved that we don't know what we're talking about?

Second part: Great plan, but kinda hard to implement when two of your guys just dropped dead, as all of those skills require a living target after the attack hits. Also, who cares if you play prot monk? -- Armond Warblade 21:09, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

lol 75.151 saying what we're all thinking --Cursed Angel 21:35, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

You waste your time 75 because he's been playing dumb so long that it's an automatic responce for him. XD He and Shard turn a blind eye to all those who have to correct their incorrect game knowledge all the time and point out all their mistakes. Even when you show them where they say things like Ritualists have hex removal skills and then people show them they wrong, they pretend it never happen every single time. You can point them right to it and they still refuse to see, they refuse to admit ovious mistakes and they refuse to acknowledge all the people who call them on their mistakes all the time. They think playing a class for five minutes in random arenas with eight skills for that class make them an expert on all hundred plus skills that class has. They are laughable. So long as they refuse to learn and keep with acting this way then Izzy will keep ignoring their spam of his page. XD 67.159.44.91 22:44, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Come on guys, cut it out. Repeatedly screaming that the other side fails only affirms both sides. -- NUKLEAR IIV 23:00, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Please NERF The AB Assasin Spikes.

Assassins have almost full domination of AB because of their Shadow Prison Spike. Many People Can't even do anything to protect them selves against it. Thus, Letting the assassin have a better position over all other Professions. 70.121.168.43 02:41, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

AB is not a reason to adjust skills, there are better reasons. Besides a block skill will stop basically any sin spike but 1.~>Sins WDB 04:57, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

SP sins are at their weakest ever. Bring a monk next time. PlacidBlueAlien 16:47, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

If AB was ever was a reason for skill change, touchers would have died a long time ago. (Long time ago as in when they were HUGE. Now you hardly see one anymore, and they're easy to beat, even though really none of their skills have significantly changed.) Ezekial Riddle 04:44, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah....Placid....They'll just spike the Monk then spike you. end of discussion70.121.168.43 15:32, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Because it's impossible for the monk to heal/prot himself, amirite? Guardian is your friend - or, hell, run a BA ranger and laugh in the sin's face as you slam Natural Stride the moment he hits you with SP. -- Armond Warblade 20:50, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Besides, sins can't solo cap. With 8 sins you just gotta go and solo cap, if u see a sin, just run. Yes I know running is gay but it's AB not RA, TA or HA. Ninjas In The Sky 11:30, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

All i have to do to get by your annoying Block stances is use a golden lead then wild strike then use my normal chain and bam your dead (it does need to be nerfed though) ╙─ ╠Dogzrdogz╣ talk

When I play AB, I avoid combat with actual players. Really, it works. The best way to win AB is to cap shrines, not kill players. Your team gets more points by capping, then by killing. Stopping to kill can mean the other side wins. If you have a team of 4 good players, try it sometime. Only attack a player when if they are not near a healer (npc or other), and if you can drop them really fast. StatMan 04:46, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Guys, you're all wrong.

I just happened to see Izzy as my opponent in HB today (5-10 minutes ago or so), turns out he doesn't reply because he finds it hard to respond to everyone on wiki. 'It's not the best tool for communication, it drives me insane'. In conclusion, he just doesn't like using the wiki, it seems. Though he does read.

Also, izzy, I want a rematch sometime =P Napalm Flame 00:38, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

He finds it hard to respond to people on wiki because he finds the English language more challenging than game balance. ~Shard 02:27, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I think that is the issue. I'm going to attempt to contact him ingame for a rematch, and hopefully I'll be able to inquire about what anet think of balancing Ursan. Napalm Flame 18:28, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Wow, holy shit. -- Armond Warblade 02:44, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, what build was he using on the HB match? Erasculio 03:26, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually, he meant, unlike a forum or in-game PM, edit conflicts and spam from autistic people occur. Wikis aren't meant for communication, they're made for documentation. The talk pages are a nice addon that aren't supposed to be used like this. — Skakid 03:54, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, Wikis suck huge for communication. Discussion pages are not meant to be used like this at all. If your discussion page is 381kbs long, within a very short span of time, even if you don't archive, something is wrong. DarkNecrid 11:02, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

/agree. Napalm Flame 18:28, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

This talk page would be way more useful to Izzy if we had people like Ensign posting here. P A R A S I T I C 23:07, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I actually got Ensign to post once when the new feedback design was set up (it was on the Mending Touch page, I believe), but he hasn't been around since. -- Armond Warblade 00:20, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Really this page specifically should not be used anywhere near as much as it is. Individual skill ideas should be suggested on these skill balance pages (see the second section of this page, above, for the link) and people probably shouldn't post links to all their ideas on their talk pages either. Especially we don't need more posts saying "Izzy, you fail" and things because, even if you think he does, that's only going to make him sick of reading this stuff and less likely to read or reply, which is a bad think because if he showed he was paying attention to us a bit more it would really improve confidence in him (by the way I'm not having a go at anyone here, just saying. It's not wonder really that he doesn't like to read all this when there's so much junk here).

Normal human beings are susceptible to reverse psychology. To a person of average intelligence, hearing "You're a bad X" will make them want to be a better X. ~Shard 07:34, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

When people say "you're bad @ X" to me, I say "fuck you, go fuck off, and die fucktard". that's just me, though. -- NUKLEAR IIV 11:19, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

If I was Izzy, then (aside from making some serious balance changes which are definately overdue, *hint*, *hint*) I would probably stop reading most of this too. There are just so many posts insulting him without offering anything constructive or of people bickering at each other (look above, there are ppl having a go at Shard, Armond et c. and then obviously they defend themselves until you have a totally off-topic argument, and that's just one example) that any actually good suggestions just get drowned out, which is a shame, really.

So Izzy still plays HB? I'd really wish they could do something to improve the format... Concerning this wiki page, back when they first used the wiki to allow people to comment on future EotN skills I think Izzy got a lot of good feedback here. Unfortunately when the wiki became more popular and more people started to post, the quality of the feedback went downhill. --Draikin 17:51, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Shard, only a weak person with low self-esteem would fall for that kind of reverse psychology. If Izzy is a person of "average intelligence", he won't be reading this page for solutions on how to fix the game since more than half of it is unorganized shit. P A R A S I T I C 23:56, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Brilliant, Sherlock, you've successfully summarized two qualities of the average 21st century human and why Izzy doesn't read this. Anything else you want to share? :P -- Armond Warblade 00:01, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Need a skill draw hexes

There should be a skill to draw hexes like you can draw conditions or foul feast. Change one of the 80% of the useless skills out there to do this plz. Maybe one of these two?

• Feast of Corruption
• Withdraw Hexes

--The preceding unsigned comment was added by 98.215.71.95

So instead of just 1 useless skill you then reduce all hexes to being useless.

Its already hard enough to get hexes to stick with the current removals, having something which can clear warriors of hexes every 2 seconds would make all hex builds redundant. ¬ Warlock 14:32, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Failing to follow your logic of "we can't get hexes to stick on guys as it is". Is your necro running a single hex and expecting it to stick? Hexes are only overpowered when your necro(s) is (are) running three or four of them, at which point it becomes impossible to keep up with the applications. -- Armond Warblade 15:06, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Arenas Problems

I know its been mencioned before, but can you do minor tweaks on this skills so that arenas isnt infested with SoM Mesmers and WoD necros? (The first beeing alot more common)

• Plague Sending - Increase the cast time to 2, so it can be interruptable even on mesmers. [Kills the AoE blind]
• Wail of Doom - Increase the energy cost to 10. WoD builds are so easy on energy that necros can afford to spam 15 spells every 12s without any kind of energy managment. And disabling a monk every 4/10s is overpowered, like you know.

Signet of Midnight could deserve a increased cast time (probably 2) because of the update to fast casting, but a plague sending nerf would probably suffice in balancing this Me/N plague. If you could take a look at this problem in your spare time i would appreciate it. Thanks in advance. - Kiji 14:44, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Increasing the activation on Plague Sending seems a bit unfair on the necros who might want to use it. A simple increase on Signet of Midnight (even with Fast Casting) and maybe reducing the Blind duration to maybe 8-10 seconds or whatever should be enough. At least it would mean you couldn't keep it up ALL the time on two people (by the time you've sent it to another person, it will have run down a bit). Bear in mind it is elite.

Buffing less than useful Elites

Heya Izzy. If you've got some time or would like some inspiration on what Elites of buff, check out this thread: [1] Thanks. --Skye Marin 02:10, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

I like most of those, but be carefull with overbuffing stuff, you can't predict what the meta is going to do with it if those changes would happen. Dark Morphon(contribs) 12:34, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

The last set of dev notes did say that their next update would probably involve buffing some underused elites and that they were looking at Ursan too (finally), so it would be relevent for these suggestions to be actually read by Izzy or someone. There are also a LOT of suggestions on the skill balance pages, and I can name a few off the top of my head - try Cleave and other axe elites, Quivering Blade, Hex Eater Vortex, Mind Burn and to a lesser extent its Freeze and Shock cousins, Locust's Fury, Seeping Wound (see THIS PAGE), Wastrel's Collapse, and probably a good few more.

Oh, and /doh, I forgot... Light of Deliverance... another classic victim of the "pendulum effect". Btw, these links are links to the skill balance suggestion pages, not the actual skill pages, so take a look.

Regarding shadow stepping and aftercast

Thank god you finally did something about that retarded mechanic. Too bad it's 2 years too late, but anyway I'm not here just to say that. Shadow Fang still doesn't have the aftercast and with the way that crap of a skill is designed I can see why you didn't add it. Why not buff it in line with the other three non-elite shadowsteps? With the aftercast I don't see how this can be overpowered.

Something like "Hex Spell. Shadow Step to target foe. For 10 seconds, the next time you hit target foe with a dual attack skill that foe suffers from a Deep Wound for 5...17...20 seconds." lower the recharge to 30 seconds and add the aftercast. Or somewhere along those lines to follow the "Fang" trend.

Also, since the aftercast is there, you can also bring Shadow Prison's recharge back down to 20 seconds. It's not like insta-gib now that monks have an extra 3/4 second to react to dervs and A/D's that use it for Be Spike/Tele Derv and also SP sin spikes. Although I know that part of the reason why Shadow Prison is nerfed like this is because even though shadow steps have an aftercast now, the caster can still catch up to its target because the target is snared and the target won't be able to kite out of the spike. But seriously, monks who don't know how to catch a spike with such a huge hex give-away and now the aftercast should at least try to get better, it's not hard. ABers might whine to this suggestion but hey, guess what, stop sucking and stay with your group. It's also chopping just 5 seconds anyway.

Oh and a retarded bug (actually two) that still hasn't been fixed. Augury of Death doesn't have an aftercast, you may want to have a look at that. Also, Mark of Instability doesn't end if...uhh...hmm...this is hard to explain. Let's say Mr. Caster casts Mark of Instability on a target and then his buddy, Mr. Sin, uses a dual attack on that target, Mark of Stability won't end but it still knocks the target down. This means the sin can use Moebius -> Death Blossom and knock-lock the target for 20 seconds as long as the hex isn't removed. The hex works as the description says and ends accordingly if the sin that casted the hex hits his target with a dual attack though. Does that make sense? I hope it does. (Psst, exploit it now :o N/A Rigor Mortis -> Mark of Instability -> Parasitic Bond and have his assassin buddy rape things.)

Ride The Lightning still doesn't have an aftercast either and it's considered a shadow step. Fix that please. All shadow steps should have an aftercast like normal spells. Being elite and/or crap doesn't make it eligible to have retarded broken mechanics, fix the skill, don't mess with the mechanic.

That's it. ILikeKiwis 20:22, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure that aftercast was in fact the best way to deal with shadowsteps, but it's hard to see what the best way was, and it seems to have been a reasonably effective if inelegant solution... something of a kludge, if you will. Also, I totally agree with Shadow Fang, it could be such a good skill but isn't. Maybe just decreasing the recharge to 25 or something similar (and giving it an aftercast too), perhaps chopping a bit off the duration too. It's a real shame it doesn't work with Drain Delusions and whatnot, 'cos there'd be some nice synergy there. Currently, the only use I can see for it is with Assassin's Promise or something.

On a side note, I direct you to ArenaNet:Skill feedback/Assassin/Shadow Fang, which is probably a better place to post this.

I must test/abuse this bug. -- NUKLEAR IIV 11:16, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Lol, nuclear its been like that for ages. prokiller88 15:27, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Since Factions beta anyways. Also Confusing Images doesn't end when they use an ability, making it effectively a better Dazed sans interrupt ing. DarkNecrid 22:32, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Not a bad idea, Ride the Lighting is an elite shadowstep without aftercast... not a bad idea. Maybe I can find a way to exploit it as an Assassin.--ShadowFog 16:27, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Bowz Are sux Izzay D:

PLez Fix.

But seriously, You RARELY see a bow nowadays, and they either do one of two things- Conditions spam (Cripshot ((to a lesser extent))and Burning Arrow ) And Barraging. Interrupt bows arent even popular anymore. Anyone have any proposal to draw the bow away from its uselessness and generic skills sets?

Phill Gaston 23:20, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

lol gud 1

(Edit conflict) You also forgot about 2 or 3 variations of Ranger Spikes, and about Magebane to name a few things of the top of my head. — Poki#3 23:30, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

yeeeeaaaaah... yar saying that bow interupts are'nt popular? Where are you playing? RA?Oni 16:02, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Considering that he mentioned Barrage, that's probable. — Poki#3 19:59, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

I was trying to be stupid when I made the post. you two are trying very hard not to troll, huh? (Poki-Oni? =O) Barrage in 4-man PvP? Lulz.

I was saying that Bows have lost the magnitude they used to have in the olden days. They still have thier past uses, but they seem to see the least use as Physical weapons. Of course they have thier 3-4 builds/combo's that still happen to work, but in today's meta, they (considering the number of rangers used daily) are hardly seen. I wanted to ask for feedback from Izzy, (which most likely wont happen, or merit more comments of the nature above) Or players as to why they have fallen out of grace so quietly, ever since the nerfing of Sundering/Penetrating attack, and several other bow skills. They seemed to slowly have died since March, and even my favorite build, CripShot, seems much slower than usual.

Anyone see or feel the same way? Phill Gaston 20:56, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

All I'm going to say is that the three major ranger builds (cripshot, BA, magebane) all work just as well as they ever did. -- Armond Warblade 21:08, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

I know, but they dont see as much use, is what im saying. =O Any speculations as towards why?

Meta focusing more on pure damage to get past the blockweb and less on the utility/disruption a ranger brings, perhaps? Can't be bothered opening obs, but that'd be my guess. -- Armond Warblade 23:53, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Cripshot is still very much awesome. I'd say that's in the top 5 of most powerful builds ever. -- NUKLEAR IIV 13:41, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the blockweb issue has dropped considerably with the changes to ward against melee and aegis as far as I can tell. People might still run Aegis for passive defense but it isn't a given (probably less common in AT play but you still do see it on ladder). Defensive anthem teams have been uncommon as well. Water elementalists have changed to fast casting water eles so they don't get interrupted but the majority do not run hex breaker. Mesmers, in this type of environment, work out far better due to their hexes and the fact that they can interrupt 3/4ths and the like far easier than a ranger can given not so awesome ping. People still run rangers but considering that there is still synergy between soh/conjure etc., something has to be given up and changed somewhere. PlacidBlueAlien 15:37, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Fix HB, and redeem yourself

Stop ignoring HB and fix it, or do you enjoy the fact that HB is a dead format due to your own ineptitude when it come to balancing the game. 82.32.64.95 01:41, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Also, stop lowering people's rank just because they beat you. Being a terrible game balancer and a terrible player is NOT an excuse to be a sore loser as well. ~Shard 07:58, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, if you read the post a short way above this one, you'll see that it seems he does at least play HB still, so he ought really to have an interest in making it nice (unless HE is a backbreaker sin or whatever...). Tbh, though, I think HB is probably less broken than it was not long ago, though that's probably just due to the meta rather than Izzy's balancing (though I think the shadow-step nerfs may have helped).

I'm convinced Izzy would try to fix the format if he was given the time. For all the people saying Izzy fails at game balance, he's one of the very few persons I've talked to that realized the problem with HB is not so much the builds but rather the shrine capping mechanics. It's amazing how many top 100 players argue that Shield Bash and Return should be nerfed, because they blame those skills for losing against defensive shadow stepping teams. Few bother to look beyond those skills and realize that in fact the morale meter is the problem, since that's the mechanic allowing them to win by doing nothing but holding shrines. Backbreaker + frenzy assassins exploit the exact same mechanic by using three healers that camp shrines while they run around the map and then spike down targets in 4 seconds whenever they get the chance. Mo/W + 3 R/P builds force the opponent in isolated 1v1 fights where any hero without enough self-heals is simply going to die, and also exploit the AI flaw that causes heroes to attack pets. Fully defensive teams use either a water ele or multiple shadow stepping skills to constantly outcap the opponent, or both. What all the successful builds have in common is that they're basically all gimmicks, but they use a "divide and conquer" tactic to make it impossible for more balanced teams to counter them. Not giving points for just camping shrines is really the only way to try and resolve the problem with HB. There's obviously a lot more to it than that and it would be great if we could discuss the problems and possible solutions with Anet, but of course they'd have to be willing to spend time repairing the format first... --Draikin 13:23, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

I dunno about "top" players, but I've been say for ages now that the morale mechanic is total and absolute shit. It's a shame though, because that format would be so much awesome without any shrines or other BS, just straight on 4vs4 arena. -- NUKLEAR IIV 13:43, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Top 100 players are going to shit nowadays; more and more of them are only there because they exploited skill-less builds and have little to no actual skill. And of course shrine capping is the problem; it takes the "vP" out of "PvP", just like cap points in HA. It also forces you to split your team of four into four teams of one or two teams of one and a team of two, which, when combined with the semi-fail reactions of an AI healer, makes for ideal targets for a human assassin (the only reason SP sins worked anywhere, ever, with the exceptions of RA, AB, and CM). -- Armond Warblade 13:48, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Straight 4v4 would introduce a lot of other problems. In my opinion the shrines should still give their inherent bonus but no longer contribute to the morale meter. Holding the center shrine could just give a morale boost instead, similar to GvG. You'd still have movement across the map that way, but simply running around wouldn't win you games anymore. --Draikin 14:00, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

You are completely right, but Izzy never cared about this format. This suggestion was already posted several times... A. von Rin 14:03, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

I would prefer a 4vs4 powerplay to the current format. I only suggested it becuse it was, you'know, very easy.

I don't shrine mechanic. I just don't. -- NUKLEAR IIV 14:08, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Well the thing is that having different tactical options isn't a bad thing. Being able to change tactics in the middle of a game, like for example splitting in GvG, makes the gameplay more interesting. Of course for that to work, the different tactical choices you can make would have to balanced in the way that there isn't one tactic that is automatically better than anything else. If they're not then people start complaining that the game is imbalanced, for example when sinsplit dominated GvG. That's why they made changes to the VoD and ViO mechanics in GvG. Currently in Hero Battles splitting is the only viable tactic, but unlike GvG nothing is being done about it. --Draikin 16:11, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

SF issue.

(Joke starts here) i b asason/ele monkey taht can pres keez 1-8! (Joke ends here.) Ok, now the serious part. Those damn monkeys I talked about a sentence ago are actually ruining this otherwise fabulous game's economy. The issue is even worse than Ursan. At least with Ursan you can't solo farm. People abuse its perma-ability WAY too much and WAY too long. Some idiot actually made a build for farming chaos planes (in UW) using the 3 essential skills, along with glyph of lesser energy, frigid armor, burning speed and some other ones. Someone must hit ANet with Thy Stick Of REALITY. I pinged an offer of SF changes on ur page to take care of both its PvE and former PvP abuses on your skill rebalance page. But no, don't listen to the guy with the good offer for returning GW's economy, just nerf it in dumber and dumber ways. Thanks for letting ectos go back down to 3-4k. People lost and still lose hundreds of platinum and possibly MILLIONS of gold. All you need to do is farm a stack of ectos for a few months, wait for something like SF to happen, and lose over 200-300k. Ninjas In The Sky 11:40, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Some Skill sugestions

I've been thinking and here are a list of skills that I belive should be changed.

Avatar of Melandru

The only thing I see with this skill is that its energy cost is extremly high. 25 energy is all of the dervish's energy. Meaning in pvp they would have to wait to respawn or replenish energy till they can use it. My suggestion for this skill is only in PvP. Decrease energy only by 5. allowing for the dervish to not be completly defensless after casting.

Avatar of Grenth

This skill is really not half bad. but it only provides a slight upperhand against Some dervish's. My suggestion is this:add +7...18...28 Dmg against Enchanted foes to the skill.

Word of Censure

This is ok because of the short recharge...However it does'nt match up to many other skills. Flare is considerbly better because it only has 5 energy cost and you can spam it. The Increased recharge of it once a foe is under 33% seems really unnessisary. My suggestion is. Target foe takes 17...64...81 Holy damage. If target foe was below 33% Health, this spell deals -20 damage. Decreased energy cost to 5 energy.

"The Power Is Yours!"

This skill renders it self usless over all. for a small energy gain this has an extreme cost for it. I have two suggestions for this. 1: All party members in earshot gain 2...10...14 energy. for 10 seconds you have -10 energy degeneration. Decreased energy cost to 5. 2: All party members in earshot gain 1...7...8 energy. for 10 seconds you have -5 energy degeneration. Decreased energy cost to 5.

Should you chose to change them or not. here are just some elites I belive need a buff. Sharingaun dervish 18:15, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Lol. avatar of grenth is just terrible >:/ it needs to be reverted to what it used to be imho. And it's bugged aswell. the cold damage does'nt even happen. word of censure: buffing that skill would never be a good idea. monks arent supposed to kill. And they are especially not supposed to sit the entire match and spam one single damage skill the entire match.Oni 19:37, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't like AoG nor AoM. AoM is powerful enough as it is, and prenerf AoG was borken as much as WS is. TPIY change also seems broken, but I'm biased against that. -- NUKLEAR IIV 21:00, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Apparently Oni has never seen a Jehovah's Witness. What do attribute do you think they use? Fire magic? >____>

There are several Reasons why I dont agree with you. (Oni) A smiter would fit several persona's. a Monk who decided to go the path that Lucifer was trying to pave for heaven-(EXAMPLE, No god discussion or atheists please) Imparting judgment(hence all the judgment skills) of their god upon others with divine magic, instead of using it to heal. (Signet of Rage being the potentially best example of smiting GW has done thus far)

Anywho,Word of censure needs a buff, but the buff you suggested would be the new BS skill, and scream imba. 10 Energy is fine, but they need to make it worth the energy. All the other buffs sound OK, But i thin that "The Power is Yours!!" Should just make you lose all energy, and cost 5 energy. Or half your energy regen rate, and lose all energy, or something. And AoG is practically useless as a form, because its ability is easily mimicked by several skills around the game. Bonus damage against enchanted would be a beautiful idea. Phill Gaston 21:18, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Another few skills I came across That I belive need to be De-Buffed or buffed up.

Battle Rage

Lately I've seen Warriors in pvp spam this skill a lot. By having a small adrenalin cost, a warrior can renew this skill every two hits. Cause it does'nt end, just renews, The warrior won't loss adrenalin. Warriors these days already deal enough damage, With Battle Rage they can constantly use high adrenalin skills pretty quick. My suggestion is this: 1: For 5...17...20 seconds, this you move 33% faster and gain 1 extra strike of adrenalin from attacks. Adrenalin cost 10. 2:1: For 5...17...20 seconds, this you move 33% faster and gain 1 extra strike of adrenalin from attacks. Adrenalin cost 5. Recharge 30 seconds.

"Cause it does'nt end, just renews, The warrior won't loss adrenalin." Wrong. When you reactivate this stance it clears your adrenalin pool. You can only have one stance active at a time so the old one ends when the new one activates. Not to mention it's a non-attack skill which would end itself anyways. Done25 19:59, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Dismiss Condition

Now the only thing I suggest for this skill is move it to Healing or Divine Flavor.

Aura of the Lich

Now...the only reason I'm asking to Debuff this skill is cause it provides and unfair advantage. This is pretty much like the 55 monk or God warriors because they Can't be killed by normal Methods. The only two classes that can remove enchantments as far as I know is Necromancers who usally focus on being a MM and dervishs who don't use thier enchant removal often. My suggestions are these. 1:For 10...26...30 seconds, Your maximum health is reduced by half. you take and Deal 50% damage from all sources. Energy 10. Recharge 45. 2:For 10...26...30 seconds, Your maximum health is reduced by half. you take and Deal 50% damage from all sources. This enchant ment ends if you cast another enchantment on yourself. energy 10. recharge 20.

Temple Strike

This is the only skill other than Golden Skull Strike that causes daze with assasins. I ask for a decreased recharge.

Beguiling Haze...and may i add, it work very well! anyways temple is powerful skill, but a 15 sec recharge wouldn't hurt--Metal Sazz 01:47, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Spirit Light Weapon

Now, I would love to use this skill in PvP and in PvE. But It doesn't heal enough. I suggest increasing healing to 4...18...21 Health for both parts.

"Can't Touch This!"

More than likly you made this skill as a hard counter against R/N touchers. But it does'nt block it enough. I think increase it to 1...6...7 Touch skills failed.

Invoke Lightning

This skill is'nt worth the damage it does. Lightning orb does better damage and has better recharge. Suggestion only to increase Damage.

It has the EXACT same damage progression as Lightning Orb and can hit up to 2 other people.....Done25 20:06, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Isn't Invoke Lightning more like Chain Lightning than Lightning Orb? 000.00.00.00 12:21, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Searing Flames

Now, I like this skill to, but it deals way to much damage in a short amount of time. Increased recharge or increased energy is my suggestion.

Thats all till I notice anymore. Sharingaun dervish 18:50, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Sharinguan, There are way too many De buffs that are needed in other places, the buffs your requesting are simply going to kill idle skills. Much more, this is about BUFFS. Also, half your suggestions are fail^5, you sound like a new player that only runs sword warriors. >_>

AoL is USELESS against Degen, which is especially prevalent in PvP, and the new nerf to mystic regen makes this skill even harder to use.

Weapon spells are un-removable. Much more, I think 30 HP a second MORE than outdoes max degen (most 22hp per second) do you know how IMBA 42 HP per second would be? Healing monks would be obsolete. Spirit Light Weapon is fine as is.

Cant Touch This isnt meant necessarily for touchers. If they wanted this skill to completely counter touchers, they'd have left it at touch skills failing plain and simple. Besides, Rending Touch, Star Burst, and etc also fail due to this skill. If your dumb enough to not kite when your getting molested, you may as well not use this skill.

Invoke Lightning? Are you serious? Go get three ele's, and tell them all to run cracked armor and Invoke Lightning/Chain Lightning. See how many foes survive both those spells at the same time.

Searing Flames is very lack-luster. it looks pretty on the surface, but considering the fact you have this skill at all, your more than likely going to be spamming a 15 en spell every 3 seconds, and have 0 energy before you know it.

Have you played with any of the skills your suggesting to nerf? Phill Gaston 22:20, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, What do you think I am, an idiot? But yes, I may have been a bit over buffing Spirit lightweapon. As for Searing Flames, using Fire Attument, Glphy of lesser energy, SF could take out a foe in 4 goes. And one last skill I want debuffed the most...and I bet ya many are going to complain...

• Ursan Blessing DELETE!!!!! People can't get into things they really want to do just casue people in this game are so dang stubbern. My only R9 charr was about to go into a Full DoA run but but turned down just because I was'nt rank 9. its really annoying. Why did you even put this skill in the game ANET? Sharingaun dervish 02:18, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Phill, can you please stop trying to sound smart and good while actually failing doing so? You are actually calling cant touch this Viable. And the reason? To counter Starburstes (Who suck, you should'nt die against them anyway) and the rending touch is only dangerous for builds like monks or eles. (attunement, channeling and guardian.) What fckn monk/ele in their right mind would get that 20sec recharge for immunity for ench removal for a couple of sec? If you are saying that Spirit Light Weapon is good, why isnt anyone using it? Want me to tell you why? Because WoR exist. It sucks compared to WoR. Even though that dudes suggestion would be overbuff, you saying its a good skill is fail. And to the worst point: Are you fckn kidding me? Who the hell runs out of energy on a SF bar? Have you even played the last year? You got like 3 e management skills on the same bar and still outdoes 90% of the other characters ingame. Nope. Not balanced.
And i dont know about you, but if i find a monk in a PuG with banish, word of censure, spear of light and whatever the bad line has to offer, i would have either raged instantly or kicked him. If someone wants to roleplay for himself that he is a servant of lucifer let him do that, as long as he doesnt suck when he actually plays with people. go Ele if you want to nuke.Oni 07:30, 23 July 2008 (UTC) Firstly, Oni, STOP. Whenever you post, all you do is QQ on people. You rarely have positive input. =< (/report lulz)

And Yes, WoH outdoes spirit light weapon, but that does not mean the skill is useless. Its pretty obvious everyone is going to use the spike heal over the HoT skill, especially if the HoT takes ten seconds to run through. It still CAN effectively counter Degen. Any team with a Protection monk can pretty much put an SF ele to sleep. SF seemed more PvE targeted, so a PvP version could be made, but the DPS is only high when used on more than one foe. Possibly 2 S. Cast time to slow damage?

Phill Gaston 10:00, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, you're suggesting nerf Aura of the Lich because only necros have enchantment removal and they play MM all the time? Are we playing the same game here?

Firstly, necros only really play MM (or at least primary MM) in PvE or AB. Right now there're SS, SB, Depravity and/or Tainted Flesh, and most balanced teams will have one take Rend Enchantments or Rip Enchantment or something, or have a /N take one.

Secondly, there're PLENTY of non-necro enchantment removers - take a look at Rending Touch, Tranquility (not a remover as per say, but it halves their duration...), Shatter Enchantment, Drain Enchantment, Feedback, Mirror of Disenchantment, Inspired Enchantment and Revealed Enchantment, Discharge Enchantment, Dark Apotasy, Expunge Enchantments, Shattering Assault, Disenchantment... need I go on? Not to mention anti-enchantment things like Scourge Enchantment and Soul Barbs.

Thirdly, the whole of that is a bit irrelevant since Aura of the Lich isn't OP anyway. It only really sees use in PvE and/or in combination with Protective Spirit, or at least lots of sac skills. Even then, users are still vulnerable to life stealing spikes (blood spikes may have fallen out of favour somewhat but there's still Nightmare Weapon for example) and whatnot.

So really, Aura of the Lich isn't OP and even if it was, a lack of enchantment removal either in or out of the meta is not the cause. And btw, a buff to "Cant's Touch This!" is definately needed, but one that small really won't make a lot of difference.

I said WoR, not WoH. You keep proving that you are seriously inexperienced <.<. (Weapon of redemy) And even WoW (Weapon of warding) which is a non elite beats the skill. If you dont like my attitude you can just ignore my post y,know. And SF needs a BUFF in pvp? Wow... Just wow... stop talking. all you do is fail. Your right, ill stop qqing on you now. And i suggest to you that you keep out of this section about balanced skills, it's because of people like you that izzy sometimes does such failing skills.Oni 16:47, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

You miss read my suggestion on SF. I said DE-buff, not buff. not all of these are buffs. actually read. And yes, I did suggest an over buff on SLW. And, I was'nt right about Necro's, I just saw about 20 of them in one day and it really got me annoyed there. But you are missreading everything.Yes, I completly frogot about Mesmers there for a bit, But you make no sense. Elite skills are supposed to be better than Normal skills. As for Can't touch this! It may need a buff. Oni, just because YOU think that all monks should do is heal you, than don't post about it. I've seen Monk Smiters cream people better than me. I suggested buffing that skill so that way there'd be 2 elite smiting prayers. Plus, don't dis izzy just cause of what I say, thats just being stupid, did you even read after SpLW.And after a bit of though, I do think Some skills I did Suggest Over-buffs and Massive De-buffs. Sharingaun dervish 20:32, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

...dude... i was'nt talking to you. SF seemed more PvE targeted, so a PvP version could be made, but the DPS is only high when used on more than one foe. Possibly 2 S. Cast time to slow damage?

It was phil who i were aiming against. Anyway against your ideas: all of them are pretty much useless. The aotl nerf requests shows that you lack experience of the game whatsoever. and saying that all necs go MM means you do no high end pvp at all. Try to think about the entire game when discussing balancing. gl next timeOni 20:29, 23 July 2008 (UTC) Yeah, uh...

If the text was too hard for you to read, I said SF seemed like PvE was mostly in mind when the skill was made. Since there was a separation of PvP and PvE Functions, Possible a 2.s(2 SECONDS, Fella)cast time would be good for SF. Thats a nerf, unless theres some advantage to casting spells slower that isn't known to me. Phill Gaston 20:35, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

-sigh- are ya a schitzo or something? first you say that its too high energy cost. then you say that a prot monk can easily stop it. and now you say you want a nerf because of that? get yar facts straight. but like i said. I'll stop talking to you now because you are'nt even fun arguing with (and coming from someone who loves arguing, thats pretty damn boring).

Some stuff for next time:

1. HoT is bad
2. WoR is NOT word of healing
3. Can't touch this is a bad skill
4. Smiters fail. even though they say to themself that they serve lucifer while playing
5. It's not because I want smiters in my team. its because the whole fckn smiting line is badd. even anets staff has admitted it so stop it tbh.
6. Stay away from any place where you need half decent experience in order to talk.

thats it. byeOni 20:41, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Eat babies. I dont even know what that word means, but I'll take it as an insult. =<Phill Gaston 21:26, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Phill and oni, all you do is argue about your veiws, let me tell you this: NO ONE IS THE SAME!!!! If you want to fight about something, do it on your own talk pages, There are some good smiter builds. I'm tired of listening both your BS on this, He did'nt suggest these just so you could argue on what you think in general.70.121.168.43 23:55, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Meh, all the arguments at this wiki suck so oni will prolly stop flaming for a while after this post:

Fucking fail. We stopped posting to eachother for what, 2 days ago? And NOW you come and act all daddy saying stop arguing!

Fail less with timing. god.Oni 12:16, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

• hugs Oni*

everything s'cool. he knows he needs my luvin'.

Phill Gaston 14:13, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Issues with addresed skills

Hi, Lion's Comfort was addresed by Izzy and then moved to the done pile. However I still have an issue with the skill. Should I bring it back up on the page (which means old suggestions are still there) or should we dealeat skills that have been fixed so that when new issues come up they can be addresed? Currently I have a link there linking to Lion's Comfort 2.0. Suggestions? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Done25 (talk).

There's a discussion at ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback#Settled(?) Skills. -- Gordon Ecker 02:49, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Channeling

Move it to Divine Favor instead of Inspiration. Nobody will miss it.

Disclaimer: If you can't identify sarcasm, don't embarrass yourself by replying to this. ~Shard 04:54, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

At least should be renamed to "Channel Divinity" Lightblade 08:15, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

It's true, though, that in HA at least GoLE is being slowly pushed out by Channeling - in fact you very rarely see Mo/Es with GoLE these days, probably partly because it's been nerfed, but also because ppl are realising that if you sit in the middle of the fight, Channeling gives you so much more back (and also because GoLE needs 10 skills to give the most back). Possibly it should be limited slightly, somehow, like "You can only gain a maximum of 4...10...12 Energy this way every 3 seconds" or whatever.

Heh, then you should move it to Soul Reaping. :P

For the one, you needn't link gole every time you type it. :/ For the other, no shit, everyone uses channeling in HA, the maps are so small that it's like having infinite energy. This isn't new - this has been going on for years. -- Armond Warblade 23:15, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, it has been going on for years, but not that long ago GoLE (lol) was still being used, at least in prot monk builds (when monks were using Protective Spirit, Aegis and SoD more you got more mileage out of it), partly due to the fact that before then nerf it gave 15 energy off, not 10 (though few commonly-used monk skills are 15 energy anyway, so much of it was wasted). Nowadays very few monks use the glyph over Channeling.

I think Armond was talking about the period before glyph affected 2 spells. ~Shard 06:36, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

PvE Balancing

Just wanted to link you to something that I hope will let you know where some of the community stands. Petition For PvE Balancing. Denizen Zero 17:41, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

That petition, even though I think it is a very good initiative, is about Consumables, not Skills or Izzy's person, hence this is not the place to post. -Why 21:37, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

That petition is for pve to be balanced. Consumables aren't even mentioned. ~Shard 21:59, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

You may want to read again. Even if it's titled "Request for balancing PvE", the whole petition is about consumables.--Fighterdoken 22:02, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, you sound like someone who only cares about killing pve items.

The page is mainly about consumables, but the petition itself is to make PvE harder again, not only to nerf consumables. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 01:07, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Anything to nerf Consumable effects would be bad, and would make the game less fun for a very large number of players. You can read some older threads about Hard Mode like "the DoA-ification of PvE". People don't like being frustrated. There is nothing fair about a level 30 boss who can hit your party with a ~400 damage Deep Freeze. PvE skills and consumables are a fair response to that. Give another way to solve a problem. Invest gold or time to make yourself stronger. If you can beat the areas without these investments, congratulations! You just saved yourself an ass load of time and cash.

Nothing is taken away from you by letting those who can't experience this content normally do so by earning buffs for themselves. You already completed your accomplishments. Things become easier over time, which is always been true. The first cartographers didn't have a master map, but they did share note. FFF has been refined to a science.

The only solution here would be to add content instead of taking it away. I had an idea like that here: [2]. Basically, if you complete a mission or dungeon in Hard Mode without PvE skills, consumables, or Heroes, you get progress for another title. Some additions have also been made to prevent AI exploits like tank 'n spank or rolling minions. Those who want the challenge can face it, and those who don't aren't effected, except for those who can't accept they can't do everything.--Skye Marin 03:34, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

What if they nerfed Ursan Blessing and conumables then re-balanced hard mode? Depending on how hard mode is coded, toning down hard mode monster power could be fast and simple or slow and complicated. -- Gordon Ecker 07:25, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) 400 damage from a level 20 is quite exaggerated. The attribute cap is 20, and the damage at that level is 110. Bosses get a flat x2 increase in their damage, meaning it would only be 220 damage done to a 60 armor target. However, even if it was 400, it would still be nothing with PvE skills and consumables. Take Ursan and a cons set for example. When your in Ursan and have just armor of salvation on, you have +30 armor, +300 health and immunity to critical hits. Many professions can reach around 700 health and 90 armor before all that. Together, you'll have about 120 armor, 1000 health and immunity to crits. With the extra armor, that boss's 400 damage uberpowered Deep Freeze will deal just 140 damage, and thanks to your massive health thats only about one seventh of your total health. Together with the ability to kill the boss in a single second (Ursan Strike spike = dead boss), the boss is not even a small threat.

In the end, Hard Mode is supposed to be hard, not something any idiot can breeze through. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 07:46, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

There aren't any level 20 bosses in hard mode, and higher level bosses get a damage multiplier. -- Gordon Ecker 08:05, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, the 220 damage from a level 30 would be boosted to ~350. However, Skye said that a level 20 could inflict that much, not a level 30. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 08:58, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

If I may interject here, the only reason consumables and Ursan have for existing is because of these 400 damage spikes. Hardmode, and a good portion of PvE is built on "Jack up the levels, attribs, skills, power, and number of mobs to jack up difficulty". Now, that does sound like a sane idea, it miserably fails when applies on a MMORPG basis. This setup brutally punishes people with random builds and forces "teamwork" that are effective in theory, but fails hard in practice. This setup just paves way for devs to create broken shit to silence an overpowering crowd of players who want to win these "hard" areas. Thing is, when you put counters in player's hands, "hard" creatures (Being no smarter than my printer) get buttraped and "hard" areas are no longer hard anymore. To put it in another word, breaking the wall becomes extraordinarily easy when you got plastic explosives. This is the biggest failing of GW PvE: either you use broken shit, or be very very very good at the game, and sometimes both.

How to fix this? First, remove all of the broken crap you've given us. Ursan, consumables, etc, trash em all. Second, remove the insane and completely illogical shit you've given to the monsters: Endless energy, inhuman reflexes, bottomless red bars, harder-than-diamond armor, godlike attributes, inane damage ability, and ridiculous numbers. Finally, make the monsters a bit smarter (They should know not to wail on tanks, for instance) a bit variable bars (some mobs are shitastically difficult even when they have only half a bar. Great idea, in a game based on skill). The idea here is to bring some more life and smart playing back into PvE, or, in other words, make it a bit more like PvP. People will complain, but they'll be grateful when they realize that killing smart but weak stuff is more fun than rolling broken retards with more broken shit. Why do you think starcraft PvE is so goddamn awesome? Sure, storyline is /win, but so is the AI. The last protoss mission is tough because the numbers are too broken, because the enemy knows how to play. -- NUKLEAR IIV 14:16, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Nuklear, I love you so hard. --81.38.32.245 15:44, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Something I would say is that though it led to a lot of disappointment and hammering of desks, et c. if you slipped up at the end, in many ways the old Prophecies style of missions were better. This was because back then they weren't afraid to make them challenging and didn't have Ursan, Consumables or PvE-only skills to help people - you had to use skill. And if you failed, you were annoyed and unhappy (especially on long missions) but could try again, as opposed to missions and dungeons in EotN which have res shrines and things, and which you can keep going at for ever (or keep trying 'till you hit -60% and then use a powerstone and go back up to +10%). Personally, I think it was better as it was - if you're good, you shouldn't find most of the game too hard (not in normal mode, anyway), but there should be times where you might have to have a couple of goes at things to get the knack of it or work out how to get around that particular problem. For those people who have done it all before or are really great or whatever, then there's Hard Mode, which should be Hard. It should be an achievement to vanquish and area or do a HM mission, which if you all take Ursan, it isn't. Also, improving the monster AI is better than just racheting up the strength, because it requires more skill from the players - which do you think is better, "let me get enough health and armour (*cough cough*) to survive that boss' 500 damage super-blast", or "right, I've realised I need to interrupt that skill over the others and that he's too clever to be beaten using this tanking build et c."?

So yeah, PvE should be balanced but it shouldn't just be a case of "Oh, morons with Ursan can do this really easily, let's give all the monsters an extra 50% health and x2 damage" or even "Ban consumables and PvE-only skills!", but more giving the monsters AI and abilities specific to overcoming farming builds (and nerfing Ursan) and exploits, and then toning them down in power so that non-farmers and non-ursan people can beat them with the same difficulty as the others. Situations which make people think outside the box would also be good (e.g. one area where all the monsters have loads of ench. removal so people who normally take enchantment-orientated builds have to re-think, areas with lots of condition removal so condition spreaders will pause for thought, or monsters which actually use Spirit Bond and Infuse Health and things properly to counter spikes et c.).

I think we could come up with ideas all day as to try and balance PvE but the Guild Wars live team is insultingly small, so I don't feel a decent attempt is going to be made at it. To balance PvE they need to look at the professions, skills, areas and AI, something that is a mammoth task in itself, but for 2-5 people? There's so much PvE and very little staff. 000.00.00.00 21:38, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Thing is, in PvE, there is no such thing as making "people" think outside the box. A single "person" does the thinking, and many other people are able to copy them, if willing or desiring. They document their encounters in the wiki, and the community gains knowledge. Many people don't care too much for the journey. I know I had fun making a build to beat Magni the Bison, but I also know many people were frustrated at losing 100 gold so many times, and just wanted to beat it. I'm not saying that's wrong, just that people facing frustrating gameplay really makes them think less of the game. Here is proof: [3]. Giving 'less skilled' players options through grind (PvE titles) and gold sinks (consumables) lets them finish the content, and simply enjoy the game to completion.--Skye Marin 10:58, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

So i herd you liek imba?

Phill Gaston 15:40, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Didn't think this would spawn such a response; Nuklear has made some good observations on Hard Mode PvE. It would have been much more satisfying and much less broken if Hard Mode had been implemented intelligently. Say, by working out better builds, monster profession/team combinations, improving AI that takes into account monster teammates and the builds they use, proper number of monsters, etc... Level 30, double damage SF is broken. So they stack broken shit on top of broken shit. This leaves me wondering about the competency of the game-play designers. Denizen Zero 07:30, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Userpage

Nice tabs! I hope you don't mind, but I changed the User:Isaiah Cartwright/TabsBottom a tiny bit, enlarged the border to 2px from 1px, to fit better with the rest. -Why 11:17, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Avatar of grenth

Please buff this poor skill. It's skin is so hawt.

And if you wont do that, atleast fix the bug with it so it actually does cold damageOni 12:19, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

While you're at it, fix how Chilling Victory ignores the effects of (insert all melee counters here).

Also, it might help if you actually read your page once in awhile. ~Shard 12:57, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Is chilling still meta on dervs? I cbf reinstalling gw, but I really didn't think it was nerfed that much. -- Armond Warblade 11:55, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

It was nerfed enough but still the highest damage scythe attack, pretty much half your bar gone if you get caught by a critical. ¬ Warlock 09:10, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

July mAT

It was bad. Here's a thread of people who think it was bad. Here's my post, complete with pictures, detailing why I think it was bad.
April fool's is over, right? When's the actual mAT starting? -Auron 12:40, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Anet's biggest selling point has always been gvg. Fuck that up, and you're ruining a good portion of your credibility, izzy. Just FYI, losing all your credibility to run a game when you got a hard-on sequel coming, well, is very brave. -- NUKLEAR IIV 10:41, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm actually questioning if Guild Wars skill balancing is his department anymore. He's not listed as part of the Guild Wars Live Team, I'll definately have to double check the post Regina gave us a while ago, but I do not remember seeing his name specifically mentioned, and you'd think someone as important to the current game as a skill balancer would be a solid part of the team. 000.00.00.00 12:50, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

The people who are part of the Guild Wars Live team are the ones completely dedicated to GW 1, so Izzy isn't part of it since he's also working on GW 2. That doesn't mean he doesn't handle skill balancing for GW 1 anymore. --Draikin 17:05, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Ontopic: Capes are currently out, so ANet please give at least some info about what's coming, even if it's "we're accepting current results" which would be dumb but whatever. NEEDS some official reply from arenanet because several guilds not being able join mAT and ppl taking -50s for nothing is big thing. Replaying the mAT would be best solution as rollback seems too far already...

Offtopic: Heard Izzy does the GW skillbalancing, but has very limited time for that due to working more on GW2 than GW1. 91.154.7.85 22:13, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Ursan is balanced. =<

Phill Gaston 00:02, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

failOni 11:32, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Scythes

I'm playing every day for several hours in the arenas. Right now there is only one weapon used by all melees:

• dervs with scythes
• rangers with scythes
• assas with scythes
• warriors with scythes
• even ritus with scythes

Wouldn't it be easier to delete all other weapons if scythes are meant to be the only viable choice of weapons? Or maybe just make a Scythe Blessing (PvP) skill. Then we can all can play the same build in pvp like we do in pve. --134.76.63.98 01:12, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

There's also Rits, Eles, Rangers and Dervishes with Daggers, Rits and Rangers with Spears, Rangers with Axes and Hammers, etc... So what's your point? --TimeToGetIntense 03:22, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Saying that scythes are overpowered in a wrong way? Fox007 10:19, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

*Raises Hand*

Im...Im probably that Rit you saw with the scythe. Violent Was Xufei?

Phill Gaston 10:32, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Lol at ritus with scythe. Although i get that the poster want to say that scythes are overpowerd.Oni 11:32, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

If you want to flame izzy, go to a forum. If you want to suggest changes, go to the feedback page. This won't help anyone. Dark Morphon(contribs) 14:17, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Posting shit on the feedback page doesn't do jack shit either. I'm quite positive Izzy doesn't even read those pages. He's hanging in [rawr] vent now as the MATs go to shit, or did you not hear? —ǥrɩɳsɧƴɖɩđđɭɘş 17:25, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Anet knew about it as it was happening? Wow it usually takes them 8 months or so to discover the stupid things they do. ~Shard 06:45, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

What's wrong with rits having scythes? What if I like to autoattack for 80 while spamming overpowered imbaheals? ~Shard 06:49, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

If you want that then you can't play a Rit, you'll have to play a Mo/D to be able to invest enough in both Scythe Mastery and Healing Prayers, and even then your crap armor will probably get you taken down pretty quick. Still, if you want overpowered heals use the few healing skills in the Protections Prayers line or the majority of them in Healing Prayers, as nothing the Rits have can even remotely compare. 67.159.44.91 13:28, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Restoration wants to disagree. -- NUKLEAR IIV 13:56, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

monk heals are pretty bad compared to ritu heals, its only cuz of divine and protection and the large variation of skills that makes monks better healers. and no, u'd be better off Rt/D as monks would have to add points in both divine and healing to be compared to what ritualists can heal --Cursed Angel 14:30, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Rits cant removes hexes. thats supposed to be thier crux. And their defensive spells fail to a degree, too.

(if anyone says expel rit, chop yourself on the neck, please.)

Phill Gaston 14:32, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

There's a type of rit that's not an expel/mirror rit? -- Armond Warblade 14:50, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

You guys are so bad it hurts me sometimes. -FireFox 15:29, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Lol. Well, ok, I'll expand. You know that rits have weak hex removal on their own, and their defensive spells, short WoWarding, aren't that awesome. So you load up on flat heals and Weapon of Warding on a necro primary (because no matter how strong the heals are, spamming them *will* burn your energy all to hell). You then take a support rit (because warmonger's and splinter are too good to pass up, and he can carry another spirit or two as well) and hand him Arcane Echo to do more disruption via Warmonger's. Because he's already /Me, you may as well take non-scaling hex removal from the mesmer line as your elite, because you know you don't have good hex removal on your healers. The final step is to put some sort of defense in your team - because maybe you don't have space for Warding, or your healers might go down at some point. The obvious place for that defense is on the guys that will be getting hit. Voila! -- Armond Warblade 16:19, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

A.K.A. Dervs with sythes use sythes cause its their norm weapon!!!! What do you expect a derv to have, a Hammer???? 70.121.168.43 17:45, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Expel Hexes isnt a Rit skill. Anyone who said expel chop yourself please. The standalone class was the point of mention rits at all.

Phill Gaston 21:27, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

tbh, I'm not really seeing to point of carrying any hex removals other than veil in your backline. Aall me odd, or weird, but I've always put hex removal in the midlines.

Of course, I do have a hard on for midlines. -- NUKLEAR IIV 23:29, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Your monks are supposed to carry hex removal? Their bars are so cramped with "STOP THE DERVISH FROM FACEMELTING" that they can't really afford more than veil. -- Armond Warblade 13:08, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

I haven't really seen ritualists with scythes, but I think he was talking about using them with Spirit's Strength. -- Bright Lamp Post 17:31, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

The real issue is, unless you're running a lot of Divine Favor skills, there's no better hex removal than Holy Veil. The utility of pre-veiling is very good, allowing your Ranger/Mesmer/Warriors to interrupt more hexes and letting you take hexes off before they get covered. Back when SoD was the meta, the bar had Divine Spirit, Signet of Devotion and Deny Hexes. This was possible because SoD had a 5 second recharge and it works universally against every kind of threat, so the bar didn't need any other prots, just e-management. Anyway, other that that example, it just is not worth it to bring other hex removal skills on a Prot or Heal Monk. It has nothing to do with Dervishes, more that most hex removals are crappy because they can't do what Veil can do and they can't remove 3 hexes at once for 5 energy. --TimeToGetIntense 01:34, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

It was a satirical joke. I don't run scythes on rits, I run scythes on warriors, where they belong. My point is that you can equip a scythe to any profession and it instantly becomes a killing machine. Why wand for 20 when you can melee for 80 instead? Hell, even rainbow spikes run wounding strike on a necro now. You know pvp has gone to shitland when necros use scythes for a caster spike. ~Shard 04:24, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Shard, pleeeeease tell me what the hell part of the game you're playing -FireFox 16:22, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Apparently somewhere between the Xunlai Marketplace and Utopia... — Poki#3 01:19, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

What, by the WS necro thing? No, I've actually fought some of those in HA. Maybe it was a flavor of the day thing that quickly died out. ~Shard 09:28, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

There we go: Scythe Blessing xD Have Fun Grinding --SilentStorm 21:56, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

SMITING!!!11

Yes, this is about everyone's favorite super armor ignoring damage-dealing Monk attribute. Plz nerf Shield of judgement(what smiting elites haven't been nerfed because of play yet?) It causes dmg to attackers while KDing them, and its nearly impossible to remove. Also plz nerf Defender's Zeal, the energy it givs smiters is wai 2 much...

On a more serious note, can you make Smiting viable to play on a monk? You've gotten close to making it so. The signets and offensive skills aren't that spammable(nor should they be, or else we'll be seeing more and mnore smiting mesmers). However, the support smiting skills, which monks should be all about, are lacking. As of now there are barely enough skills to make a smiting support build, let alone a good one. You've realized this and have brought out things like, Reversal of Damage and Smiter's Boon, which I like, and has brought a viable Smiting Monk build closer to reality, but there's still something missing. A good elite, one that could be useful defensively and would make sense on a Monk, unlike the current Balthazar's Pendulum, which seemed useless, but was used on mesmers, and was subsequently nerfed. You've come close to making Smiting useful, now finish the job. Arcdash 19:23, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

SoJ should be more active (less duration, less recharge, less cost) and more anti melee-spike, create a PvP version of it if ure afraid to damage farmers. Turn smite into an enchantment (something similiar to SoH or Judge's Insight). change SoMW to target an ally and kd anyone who attack that ally (also some anti melee-spike) defender's zeal and judge's intervention would also need a look at as their ideas are good but doesn't work. while at it reduce the recharge of SoW/kirin's wrath to 20 --Cursed Angel 00:43, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Bleh, the offensive end of smiting spells are a failure. I have yet to see any balanced fix suggestions. =<

Phill Gaston 00:55, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

lol at original poster. Go watch some obs. Many teams use a Smite Monk. Not a Me/Mo, but an actual Monk. It's very strong, providing extra healing, damage, hex removal and condition removal. The only problem is Smiting Elites are not very strong. Signet of Judgment is pretty decent but the half range thing really sucks. Some people have been running "You're All Alone!" on their smiter because it's no spec, useful for splitting, which this extra Monk is often needed for, and Smiters need 12 Smiting and 12 Divine Favor because one of the big reasons they are good is Smiter's Boon, making all their skills also heal for 84 hp.

Also, Shield of Judgement is semi-viable right now simply because it owns at VoD and for Guild Lord ganking. Unless your enemy has Rend Enchantments or something similar, you can cover SoJ in a heap of enchantments at VoD to rape the Archers. Smite Hex and Smite Condition also own, adding a lot of pressure before VoD and being good for killing Archers at VoD.

Believe it or not, Smite Monks are borderline overpowered in this metagame, mostly due to VoD because they provide a huge advantage over the other team in handling NPCs. Not only does a Smiter cause a lot of damage to NPCs but he's another healer to either help keep allied NPCs up, or keep your Warrior up who's tanking the enemy NPCs. --TimeToGetIntense 01:42, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Were you talking about WoW? Last I checked smite monks are bad. The only mildly useful skills they have are scourge healing and signet of judgment, maybe RoD. If you want to heal and damage at the same time, bring a rit. They only require 9 resto to be better healers than monks. ~Shard 04:26, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to see the math on that. Also, RoD/draw/zealot's/eprod = win. Shame eprod's so much worse in PvP than PvE. -- Armond Warblade 04:48, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Mend Body and Soul 77 point heal at 9 resto using 48 attribute points.

Orison of Healing 70 point heal at 15 heal using 97 attribute points, a hat, and a major rune.

Hmmm ~Shard 10:05, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Divine Favor? 90.212.161.110 10:16, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Requiring attribute points is not reason to ignore something's existence, especially when it affects other stuff as well. --24.179.144.91 11:08, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Hmm indeed. While I agree that soul reaping > divine favor no matter what your spec, I'd like to see this kind of math with regards to realistic specs and skills. (Oh, wait, no one uses healing because it's shitty as hell. Meh, use kiss, elight, etc. I'm too brain dead to do it.) -- Armond Warblade 12:38, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Shard, Smite Monks are popular in GvG. Divine Favor should be factored in because they use Smiter's Boon, so it gets healing from one attribute and damage from the other, just like a Rit with Resto/Channeling. Anyway, reguardless of what the numbers mean, you're wrong. People run Smiting and win. beacuse it owns. End of story. --TimeToGetIntense 14:26, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

I know that smiting is popular now, and much more useful than it was before. The first paragraph was not really serious, notice the chatspeak and spelling errors. The two elites I've mentioned are the two elites that haven't been nerfed and can be somewhat useful. Smiting, even if it is not as powerful as the other monk attributes, is more useful than it ever was before. It can do what a monk is supposed to do now, instead of trying to be a damage dealer. I liked to run one back when I had a monk. I could just never figure out what to use as an elite. Arcdash 19:27, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

I have to teach math to the idiots who think divine favor makes it ok for rits to be overpowered. That's probably the most common dumbass mistake people make when comparing those attribute lines. ~Shard 09:27, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

There is no evidence in the metagame that Rit healing is overpowered. Everyone knows that Rits are used for Splinter Weapon and Ancestor's Rage and possibly Weapon of Warding. Also, you should compare good skills that people actually use. The fact that some rit skills are stronger than Orison of Healing does not indicate that Rits are overpowered in any way. Orison of Healing not viable. It's simply too weak and too slow. It's the same as saying that Flare is overpowered by comparing it to Banish; two horrible skills nobody cares about, horrible argument. The real issue is, what kind of character you can build given a profession. Please show how healing 77 for 5 energy is overpowered. Explain how this contributes to a character that overshadows similar characters in mid/high level gvg, or prevents other characters from being viable. --TimeToGetIntense 12:33, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Stop flaming and start thinking

I think you should stop flaming izzy because heis trying to do his job and he has dedicated his life for guild wars. If you want the developer team faster and more reasonable changes so then go to the guild wars suggestions, see section 84 "hire a game balancer, go to the bottom of it and sign yourself to the newforming DevTeam Borotvaltgandalf 10:44, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Certainly! Will go do that now. -- Armond Warblade 12:39, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

^lol -- Mini Me 13:33, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, it's not like I've not said, what, three times already that I'd do this for free so long as I have a place to live. Waiting on Shard, Nuke, Oni, and Liloandra to sign that too. -- Armond Warblade 14:02, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm a bit... geographically challenged, mate. -- NUKLEAR IIV 16:10, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Agreed I was thinking that everyone is coding at home in their free time. connection between us andthe arenanet team is solved via internet. Borotvaltgandalf 17:00, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

yay /signed thx armond ^^ Lilondra 17:28, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't see you there... Borotvaltgandalf 19:25, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Is there a Quest Builder section, skills aren't really my cup of tea but quests... please... I want, I want. ^_^ [runs off to look] 000.00.00.00 20:48, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Of all the games I've worked with, I found quest logic to be the most different between each one. There are some engines that make quest creation really easy and intuitive, and some that I couldn't figure out at all.

I don't think GW needs any more quests xD ~Shard 23:57, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

I vote this way...SHARD FOR BALANCER! --*Yasmin Parvaneh* 07:24, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Or not. Ensign if anyone, random ppl would only screw things up more. 91.156.69.7 08:32, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm not random. I'd say Ensign should do it, but he already turned it down. ~Shard 09:24, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

made an userbox so the signed people can have one more cute userbox:

This user is a member of the newform DevTeam.

code:

{{Userbox | id = [[Image:Main PvP.png]] | id-c = white | info = This user is a member of the newform DevTeam. | info-c = #0ff}}

Borotvaltgandalf 10:20, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

I'd say shard too, but I dont like his Shadow step/SF ideas, Scythes are are nerfed a bit too much, and I like my Assassin chains. They make me happy. =< But seriously, Assassin chains are hardly as surprising or dangerous as they used to be. everyone knows how to counter them with remedial methods. But hey, better to have him on the team for his better ideas.

Vote +1

Phill Gaston 10:27, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh, oh! We're playing "Heal and Hurt" now? OK!! I Hurt Shard. I Heal Izzy. — Poki#3 12:35, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

We, the newform 3man team (still) are not thinking of hurting izzy, but to relieve his headache about gw1 (he lives for it but he doesn't have the time to make it better) so we are planning to heal izzy and gw (especially PvE !!!). Borotvaltgandalf 13:03, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

u're all pretty random, in a bad way --Cursed Angel 17:51, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

we are 3 man. The common in us that we think that the two members of arenanet are not enough to do the balancing, so we form, communicate and change files via internet and we are ready to rebalance many things in gw. Borotvaltgandalf 19:04, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Izzy has a balancing team. Sure they aren't working entirely on GW1, but there are more than just two people balancing guild wars.

Btw, there is no point in "signing up" there. That is a suggestion topic, i.e. it will never, ever happen. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 19:41, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Lolz...shard as balancer? Shouldn't his ideas be like, an improvement to the game then? 145.94.74.23 13:46, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah I doubt anet's gonna listen to some "random" people who made something called a "newform devteam." Then again, if they have any amount of intelligence in their office, they'd know that pretty much anybody they pick up to balance the game could do a much, much better job than izzy. Making izzy work on GW2 was a mistake on top of a mistake. ~Shard 01:31, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

We are not random. I think we are players who have the same opinion - gw has to be finally balanced, arenanet cannot balance because they are busy with gw2 - and the same devotion (we are willing to do this ourselves if we have to). Before thinking of this 'newform devteam', I have spent much time watching all of your userpages (armond, shard, oni), your comments, and anything about you. So after I saw that you are continually giving advice that arenanet ignores and then you start to hate arenanet, I gave you an advice how to solve the problem. In the team I'm the only anonym people But you can trust me. I'm as devoted as you. (and learning c++ is fun) Borotvaltgandalf 15:45, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Stop saying we, Borotvaltgandalf. and abbreviate you name. Jesus. I revoke my vote for Shard, he thinks weapon spells are OP. Lulz.

Phill Gaston

umm abbreviation? borotvalt gandalf means gandalf after shave. maybe BG, or borotvalt, or Bgandalf...

I was the one adding your signature phil.

Borotvaltgandalf 14:19, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Boro, you don't get it at all. Your "advice" is completely useless. Even if they did learn c++, Arena Net would never allow random people to touch the game, even if they do want it to be balanced. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 19:50, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Well if i had only achieved that you (thoose armond mentioned) stop flaming I am happy and I got a reason to start learning C++. Boro 10:01, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

A PRESENT FOR YOU IZZY

--Arrythmia 21:47, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

WOW. Nice job! Done25 22:07, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Very impressive. ~Shard 23:43, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

To bad thiers no carrots for it to eat 70.121.168.43 03:32, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Question:

http://i34.tinypic.com/sbkp6u.gif - Jackson Hewitt Symbol

Searing Flames - Searing Flames Symbol

Anyone besides me see similarities? Phill Gaston 23:37, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

o___O

Yeah, and there are some icons that look like circles 0_o

Pretty sure basic geometric shapes can't be copyrighted. ~Shard 23:39, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

That is absolutely hilarious! That reminds me of the Ameritrade logo looking like the FedEx Kinko's one...At least I think it was Ameritrade.--*Yasmin Parvaneh* 07:26, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

DIN 4844-2 explosive hazard symbol, ECB explosive hazard symbol. XD -- Gordon Ecker 07:51, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

How the fck is that a question to izzy? :S He Balances the skills. Just because there is a almost same looking picture does'nt mean he has to nerf itOni 09:48, 3 August 2008 (UTC) Lol, I didnt ask him to, but he probably will.

Phill Gaston 10:10, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Izzy likes gimmicks, he won't nerf SF. ~Shard 00:50, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Shard is wrong here btw. :P DarkNecrid 03:50, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Sky turned red here btw. -- Armond Warblade 12:13, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Which part was wrong? Izzy likes gimmicks or he won't nerf SF? Last time SF changed, the burning duration went up. What's sway, oh yeah it's that broken imbashit build that's existed since the first day Nightfall was released. ~Shard 01:26, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, it's a fact that Izzy does like some gimmicks (notably, thumpers) so...DarkNecrid 20:42, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Didn't he say ranger was his favorite class? That explains a lot. ~Shard 00:19, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

It would. Also I only merely heard about an SF change but these things are preliminary (or were, todays the big day). If what I heard is correct, this should be a pretty awesome update overall for a change. DarkNecrid 09:06, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Any Updates for the forgotten?

Ive had Factions for a few months now and as a newb for Factions and playing Rt for some months their Communing skills are awful and not to mention their elites, including some of the skills in Channeling tree, I see that this skills were fixed so it wouldn't see play at all in the field. The elites for the Ritualists in Factions that are considered effective, can be counted with one hand(not literally but close). There are core skills that are better at effectiveness than the majority found for the Ritualist. Plus, the so mentioned "duplicate" skills, it seems that their resting space could be used to make different skills then its "duplicate" to distinguish them or to make skills that establish balance, using the same thinking tank used for NightFall. Is there any plan for updates for the Ritualist or we have to keep ignoring skills like Shelter(for people that dont know, check My Skill Feedback)? And/or is there unocuppied employees looking into this?--ShadowFog 03:11, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Chances are, if nothing has happened to buff communing in the last 2 years, nothing will ever happen. See smiting prayers. ~Shard 09:24, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

"I see that those skills were fixed so they wouldn't see play at all in the field. The elites .. that are considered effective, can be counted with one hand.." No there is no plan to make shit skills useful. The devs balanced everything around pvp for over three years. This was a good reason to quit the game. The amount of useful skill combinations was always limited and with every pvp update it became worse. Removing skills from play to make a few cs kids happy will never work. 87.189.235.107 12:19, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Weren't they working on a major update to unused crap skills that even newbs skip? If so: gg 87.189.235.107 tbh. --- Ohaider!-- talkpage 12:21, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

First off mr. IP address guy 2 posts above me, the game was built for PvP. In fact, PvE was just one big giant tutorial area originally. If you need proof: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lmnEWvo1Ugw. #2. Plus all the advertising for the game was for the PvP. If you bought the game expecting stuff to stay the same or be balanced around PvE totally, you bought the wrong game. Second off, of course it doesn't work. That's why StarCraft isn't the best RTS in the world. Oh wait. DarkNecrid 12:37, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

we don't need more pvp vs pve discussions, theyre retarded. and as izzy only discuss the game with the gvg folks, who only use 1/8 of the skills in the game and don't care about the rest, nothing of it will be changed. --Cursed Angel 16:37, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Agree@Cursed. If this game was meant for PvP, it wouldn't have PvE. It does. Therefore, pve vs pvp arguments were irrelevant. -- NUKLEAR IIV 21:08, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lmnEWvo1Ugw 1:45 - 1:50. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 23:35, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

I always find that clip funny, Guild Wars is PvE and PvP I don't see how people are confusing that. 000.00.00.00 23:48, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

i just read through the dev updates, should read them moar. it says theyre gonna make ursan take skill and update some or many elites to not suck. skills like AoF, Xinrae, WoC, Seeping Wound, i can go on and on, will hopefully see play soon :D and maybe they'll look into the smiting elites and communing too. --Cursed Angel 12:33, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

@Cursed- Don't backtrack to PvE. It's not about PvE vs PvP discussion, it's to make unplayable skills playable in both formats, since the majority are just awful in both, especially in PvP. Making skills change for a very few people that does GvG versus the rest that does RA,TA,HA, and AB(maybe HB?) is an awful decision just pleasing tourneydoods, effective for skills that see play in GvG but for the rest, are just cannon fodder to say that the game includes (in Factions case) 240 Factions skills, which if 1/8 its true, then 30 skills from the game are usable for PvP which 210 skills where used as cannon fodder for advertisement trap? At least you see the problem, it's to buff unplayable skills due to the fact that core skills are better and to get employees that have times on their hands to start working on the updates instead of a 2-3 man "team" that are way too busy making GW2.--ShadowFog 13:35, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually, practically very skill in the assassin line is usable. Even mark of death. It's the rits that fail. =<

Phill Gaston 18:47, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

IMO, the problem with ShadowFog's idea - to buff a considerable number of Ritualist skills - is that Arena Net is too slow. A huge update that buffed many Ritualist skills would add many problems to the game, as expected, given how many new skill combinations would become overpowered. If Arena Net were quick to fix these skills into something balanced, then I think buffing a lot of stuff would work...But unfortunately that's not what happens, and overpowered things are kept as they are for months. This isn't even a supposition - take a look at the Ritualist buffs in January of 2007 and February of 2007 - both these updates introduced problems (mostly Ritspike) that took waaay too long to be fixed (some still haven't been so), and that in a time in which most of the team was working on GW1. Not that the majority of Arena Net is busy with GW2...

More importantly, IMO, Arena Net apparently has not decided what they want Ritualists to do. Their original role - to be like engineers, building turrets in the battefield - did not work, as it wasn't really viable in GW. Since the spirits were nerfed, the Ritualists have lost an unique role and have been stuck into one gimmick after the other (again, like Ritspike). Until Arena Net finds a proper, unique role for them, I doubt Ritualists will truly be fixed. Erasculio 20:45, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

I think it's funny how Factions was supposed to be a pvp expansion, yet sins and rits suck balls in pvp, NF was supposed to be pve oriented, and paragons and dervishes took over the metagame. ~Shard 01:17, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Wait, back up. Since when did sin's start sucking in pvp? -- NUKLEAR IIV 16:56, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

They did at the start, though to say Sins/Ritualists suck in PvP now would be a bit o.O.

I think he means balance-wise. -- Armond Warblade 17:28, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

"yet sins and rits suck balls in pvp" Doesn't sound very balance wise to me... -- NUKLEAR IIV 21:40, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Assassins are only good against a team with zero defense, oh wait, I just described all 10 professions. The only decent melee sin build is Shattering Assault. People don't use assassins because they don't have any utility, and the little pressure they do have can be dshotted for 100% shutdown. ~Shard 00:29, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and since when did assassins stop being the best split chars? The SS nerf was a pitticence, and sinsplit is as strong as ever. People don't use assassins because they don't know how - those that do, they still abuse sins to no end.

Excuse me if I'm wrong here, but weren't you the one who'd argued that Restoration was overpowered on your own userpage? Now, Rt's have began to "suck balls"? wtf? -- NUKLEAR IIV 08:58, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Ya Im sorry I have to completely disagree. Sins are still really good but too many people have DF Honor and don't want to abuse shit. Ritualists are probably the versatile class in the game right now and Splinter Weapon while not as good can still win matches. I guess if you're only talking about HA I can agree with Sins sucking balls, but def not Rits there. DarkNecrid 11:16, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Killing computer controlled idiotbots in someone's base while the other 6 or 7 people on your team fight real people...yeah for some reason that didn't register as "pvp" for me. They're broken gankers, but I meant in actual combat situations, they suck. ~Shard 00:17, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Shard, you are embarrassing yourself. Think again before discounting ganks from pvp. The entire gvg system is built around ganks, and if they are not real pvp, well, then we got a serious conflict of intrests.

Oh, and what guilds don't send a flagger back to their base during a gank? It pretty much screams pvp to me. -- NUKLEAR IIV 07:53, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Shard, Assassins own at actual combat as long as Aegis isn't up and 3-4 Monks/Rits/ + Inept/FC Water Mesmers are not present. AKA Splits. Not just killing archers. --TimeToGetIntense 20:05, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

I will not stop.

Until I can come up with a team called Gayway.

and trust me, it will happen.

PaTrollin'‎ 02:06, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Why do you do

indents so retardedly?

— Teh Uber Pwnzer 02:28, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Gayway = team of Paragons in pink armor? ^_^ 000.00.00.00 02:46, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Gayway = team of Paragons in pink armor? ^_^ Have you seen them dance? ~Shard 00:25, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, yes I have, and thus is why I have a female paragon. ^_^ 000.00.00.00 00:55, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

^_^ is gay enough already ^_^ Lightblade 05:34, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

NO U ^_* --Cursed Angel 00:23, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Lol, I deleted my paragon because of the armor, mostly. White short skirts and shining nipples are not my thing. Ninjas In The Sky 08:10, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

THE FATED DAY.

Let us see what the update will bring. ~Phill Gaston ‎ 10:37, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Probably not much. 000.00.00.00 10:50, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

A shit ton. Everyone is in for a surprise imo. :P DarkNecrid 10:51, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Lol, read all the Update Mods journals. I'm betting over 20 skills get buffed, 10 get nerfed, and 10 or so get revived/completely altered. Scythes will probably have their damage reduced, too. Also but probably not, I was hoping strength would be changed to AP on all hits, not just skills.

But thats just my bet. ~Phill Gaston ‎ 11:35, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't believe in the scythe-damage nerf. What about all those PvE-scythes, is ANet going to lower the damage of every single one of them? Guess not. —Why 12:05, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm expecting a "monster update"...PvE-wise. My guess is that plenty of skills, especially Elite ones, will be split between PvP and PvE, with the latter being buffed, together with nerfs to some PvE-only skills. I may, of course, be wrong - but I'm expecting little to no changes, PvP-wise (and no changes to scythe damage, to Wounding Strike or anything else "big"). Erasculio 12:08, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

I'd be more impressed if they made certain attributes usable again. Would be nice to play something else on my rit besides a hybrid build or a lol Spirit's Strength build.--68.32.187.152 12:25, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

I'd be impressed if they admitted their failures. Shame they won't fix PvP, though. -- Armond Warblade 12:53, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Anyone count the hours till update? Or wut. Ninjas In The Sky 14:23, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh for...

STOP BLOODING FAILING RETARDS EVERY DAMN SKILL HAS A COUNTER THE SAME GOES FOR BUILDS GIVE IZZY A DAMN BREAK AND MAYBE HE'LL START READING THIS PAGE IF IT'S NOT 95% ABUSE AND 5% SIGNATURES. -->78.16.233.94 15:15, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

go die in a fire --Cancer Angel 15:22, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

The bugged signet of ghostly might had tons of counters, ignorance, interuptions, flying camels and more. It killed a target in 10 seconds and was unremovable. Was it balanced because you could counter it? No? Shut the fuck up then ;DOni 15:57, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Do not feed to trolls, oni. -- NUKLEAR IIV 17:00, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Lol, Oni IS a troll. 78.16.233.94 should stop trying to feed the trolls. ~Phill Gaston ‎ 19:01, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Nukie, i gave the troll some attention, yah. then i cuddeled with him abit so he could have some love, then i made his bed and let him to go sleep, and then smothered him to death.

no. this post had no point at all. Phill; the thing with good trolls are that they are either right in some way, saying it in a bad way. Or they are epicly fun. You on the other hand is just a boringass atentionwhore who fails@game@play@troll@life@all. Gtfo alrdy. oni has no fear of ban anymore! =D <uninstalled gw>Oni 19:40, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Psh, Oni needs me as much as I need his verbal abuse. He's just in denial. =} ~Phill Gaston ‎ 20:21, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

On the current subject: gucci gucci gaga ya-ya... gucci guccy yaya he-ee-e-e... <--- exactly. No freaking point at all. Ninjas In The Sky 20:29, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

I Would Like to Thank Izzy

Before I continue, I want everyone to know that my goal with this topic is not to create a flame war or to be a troll. I think that much of the time, when nothing bad happens and there are no problems, people never thank the people who make the whole process a simple one. If your car doesn't break down for a year, you don't say thank you to your car company in an email untill it does. I haven't always agreed with the changes that Izzy has done to some skills, but at the same time he's only a human being. I think that he is genuinely trying his best, and I would like to say to you Izzy, even though you haven't always been correct, thanx for trying your best to make this game a balanced one.

On a side-note, FYI for anyone who didn't know, I asked Izzy about this one time, and he told me he is not the one balancing skills. It is actually a group of people, and he is the main man who speaks with the community, and just from my own deductions has a greater role in skill balance.ArisB66.215.9.180 18:47, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

He IS the head of the balancer team. Thus, he balances aswell. You dont have to thank izzy at all, the fact that he is'nt even doing anything is enough argument for that. All he does is asking a couple of highranked guilds how they want him to do the next update. And seeing that most of the guilds are filled with complete tards due to the ease of becomming a high ranked guild now, the game is'nt getting any better.Oni 19:46, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

You probably shouldn't comment on things you don't know about. They are only given input. He very rarely actually listens to them, but discusses and throws ideas at them. They have minimal input at best. Think of it like a wiki talk page, except all the stupid people are gone. He still ignores a shit ton of suggestions. DarkNecrid 20:01, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Izzy only discusses to simple minded top tiered players on a stupid secret forum. All people there have the same interests and thats why gw fails. 87.189.179.123 22:12, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Refurbishment

As per a proposal made on community portal, this talk page is being restricted to comments directed to User:Isaiah Cartwright only, or as specified by Izzy himself. As said on the linked page, "posts on user talk pages are kept clean (i.e., if someone starts a section, treat it as a letter to the user; nobody posts to give their two cents."

This talk page has been semi-protected for three days. Any anonymous comments that absolutely need to make it to Izzy should be channelled through an administrator during this period. Registered users should be advised that if they circumvent this, temporary blocking from editing may result to enforce this.

Once the protection has expired, this talk page will continue the restriction outlined above. Any other discussion -- for example, skill balancing ideas or debates -- will be removed. If necessary, blocks will be handed out to those who do not abide by this: the wiki cannot be treated as a forum. -- Brains12 \ talk 00:54, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Modified by (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 06:32, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

For skill suggestions, use the Skill feedback pages in the ArenaNet namespace. poke | talk 11:38, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

There seems to be some sort of confusion around this. Here's how it works. One person starts a subject that belongs on this page. That's a subject as in a subject, a topic, a matter -- not necessarily just a new header. No-one else responds to that topic, except of course Izzy (or an admin, if necessary). Anything that doesn't follow this gets removed, because it doesn't belong here. Go and discuss it on a more appropriate page -- the ArenaNet namespace, for example. -- Brains12 \ talk 20:45, 8 August 2008 (UTC)