Talk:Sorrow's Furnace

Region --> explorable area

Sorrow's Furnace should be only an explorable area, and not a region. I'm not exactly sure why GuildWiki calls it a region. I'm assuming that it's so because it was called a region (among other things) in the GuildWars.com press release:

"New Explorable Areas Available Free to All Guild Wars Players

Bellevue, Wa. (August 29, 2005) - ArenaNet®, creators of the #1 selling competitive online roleplaying game, Guild Wars®, announces the release of the much-anticipated Guild Wars update: Sorrow’s Furnace. To be released on September 7, 2005, the update will be available free to all Guild Wars account holders and will stream to them live at game log-in.

"Sorrow's Furnace" offers two large, explorable regions: Grenth's Footprint and Sorrow's Furnace. These regions will provide exciting new high-level content to Guild Wars players, and will offer new quests, new monsters, new items, and more. "

Notice that they are grouping Sorrow's Furnace in the same type of location as Grenth's Footprint, and using three different labels to describe them (explorable areas, explorable regions, regions). To make this short, I don't think the word "region" means what they think it means.

So, in my opinion we should label Sorrow's Furnace simply as an explorable area in the Southern Shiverpeaks region, just like Grenth's Footprint, Snake Dance, etc. How does this sound? --Dirigible 20:21, 8 April 2007 (EDT)

I agree. It makes sense to me that it's just an Explorable Area inside the Southern Shiverpeaks, instead of a full region by itself. Erasculio 20:29, 8 April 2007 (EDT)

We could say the same also about Nightfallen Tomb. _Biscuits 20:33, 8 April 2007 (EDT)

Changed. --Dirigible 01:42, 11 April 2007 (EDT)

In my opinion a separate heading in the quest log and a separate key type is enough to count as a region, or at least a sub-region (in fact I consider a separate key type enough), but region isn't really defined, so I'm okay with leaving it as only an explorable area if that's what the concensus favors. -- Gordon Ecker 23:07, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

Well, Urgoz's Warren and The Deep have their own separate key types as well (Stoneroot Key and Deep Jade Key respectively), would we consider those separate regions too? Or how about the Forbidden Keys used in Raisu Palace, would that mean that Raisu is its own region, and not part of Kaineng City? Dunno, SF really seems like an explorable area to me. =\ --Dirigible 03:52, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

Sorrows Furnace cannot be explored, and does not count towards the explorer title... does that not mean that it is not an explorable area? 67.70.41.51 18:21, 7 May 2007 (EDT)

That would disqualify many other areas such as Domain of Pain, Domain of Secrets, Nightfallen Tomb, The Catacombs, The Undercity, etc. --Dirigible 18:25, 7 May 2007 (EDT)

I'm not sure if you guys settled this discussion. When you enter Sorrow's Furnace, the name will fade in the center of the screen along with "Explorable Area" right underneath it. As far as quests listed in Sorrow's Furnace heading, I get the impression that repeatable quests are listed under the explorable area heading. For instance, the quest Scouting Maishang Hills is listed under Maishang Hills even though it's in the Jade Sea. I'm not sure if repeatable quests in elite areas follow the same pattern. Tedium 01:48, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

I prefer to classify it as an explorable area. The quest log is somewhat unreliable then with the point you brought up on repeatable quests. Maybe the loading screen is more reliable. If it doesn't use a new set of loading screen pictures, then it is not a region. -- ab.er.rant 01:57, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

Images

The thumbnail images on the right of the NPC section of the article make the text have big gaps between each paragraph. Can someone sort this out please? My experience is limited :S. brains12 22:44, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't have that on my screen... Could you take a screen of it or so, so I can see how it looks? What resolution are you using? - anja 06:41, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Using resolution 1280x1024. Internet Explorer 7. Screenshots here - here, here and here. brains12 16:01, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Any improvement? Backsword 16:12, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

The last two have been fixed, it's just the first one that's still the same. brains12 16:17, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Its perfect now. brains12 16:28, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Type

Since the release of Gw:en and its Dungeons, shouldn't this be classified as a Dungeon now? --MageMontu 22:57, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

It isn't a dungeon in the sense of any of the GW:EN ones, no multiple levels, no end chest, it is more like an elite mission like urgoz or the deep because you get a statue reward for your HoM at the end of it. --Lemming 22:59, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

It needs an end chest for each quest and the Final Assault. -- Tarun 23:10, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

NPCs section

The NPCs section should be cleaned up. Sorrow's Furnace has 5 sets of NPC spawns based on who accompanies the party, plus quest-related spawns. I think that if the gate only opens after taking a quest, the spawns shoud be included in the article for that quest, while the NPCs which spawn while accompanied by Budger Blackpowder should get their own section in this article, as should NPCs which spawn while unaccompanied (and NPCs which spawn while accompanied by any other NPC if the gate opens without a quest). -- Gordon Ecker 02:39, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

End Chest

Let me just put it out there, I want end chests for Sorrows. It needs to be brought back as a hot farming spot. Get some pressure off of UW and FoW from those people who mindlessly farm the hell out of them. It'd be simple, just make an end chest for each quest 1 item for NM 2 for HM, and a big chest at the end *Chest of Sorrow* 2 items in NM and 4 in HM. I think as it is it would be very difficult for people do start up "speed sorrow runs" or anything that would be overly powerful, due to the balanced groups in the area. Anyway. Just my $.02. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Jadde (talk).

agreed with who ever posted this. LegionRat 12:25, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

I think that would be pretty good because as of now, it's generally pretty hard to find anyone who wants to do Sorrow's Furnace with you due to the lack of people in the outpost. — ク Eloc 貢 19:26, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, I keep thinking it will happen, since they did give Prophecies an end game chest now. Maybe it'll happen soon.. Briareus 09:04, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Three years later and we still dont :'( would be great to get one for both Sorrow's Furnaace and Tombs as both these areas are now empty 24/7 and were really good fun to do for HoM, yet whenever i try to do them again i get bored through a lack of incentive. Cmon Anet give prophecies some love, the rewards wouldnt even need to be anything fancy. Say 100 iron ingots + 1 gold for Sorrows Furnace hm (no iron in nm) and maybe 1 ecto + gold for Tombs (no ecto in nm).--Frizz Meister 00:09, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Why not offer it up as a suggestion? – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 20:53, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Cleanup

I tried to clean it up a bit by adding in a section according to the formatting layout guide, as well as tidy up a few coding errors and what not. Short of dialouge, it seems pretty well done as there isn't too terribly much to say about SF itself, as really the specific info should reside on the quest pages. So I removed the tag, though if it's still lacking, I apologize ^^ Briareus 09:06, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Kurzick architecture?

File:The Stone Basilica.jpg

The Stone Basilica

Ruined structure in The Foundry of Failed Creations

Where? The Stone Basilica resembles a ruined structure in The Foundry of Failed Creations and, IIRC, a few structures in the Depths of Tyria, but the Stone Basilica columns have a snake-like design on them, but I'm not aware of any Kurzick colums with a snake design, IIRC they all have a root design. -- Gordon Ecker 03:35, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Rago's

Is there a reason why Rago not listed with other bosses? just noticed it?--Dan Mocha 10:23, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Added. --Arduinna 22:43, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Rago was removed along with all the other quest-specific NPCs for consistancy. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 01:13, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Consistent, yes - but rather odd, don't you think? Rago's Flame Staff is still sought after (a bit) and people are going to come to the Sorrow's Furnace page to find him. My personal opinion is that it would be better to list Rago (and Malinon, Ivor and Korvald) but with the standard parenthetical comment after their names: (only during the quest The Forge Heart). --snograt 16:39, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree that quest bosses should be listed, however if an article is going to list one quest boss, I think it should list all of them and clearly mark them as quest bosses. The location formatting guideline's rule against including quest spawns is generally ignored for bosses. Anyway, I've brought up the issue at Guild Wars Wiki talk:Formatting/Locations#Quest bosses. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 01:25, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Heh, here's an argument to hurry along consensus: They're not quest-dependant spawns, they're always there - you just cant get at them! (Probably/as far as we know) ;) --snograt 09:27, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

You're right, I checked the Rago Kindlerock page and my old notes. When I added the boss list in this edit, I was probably using the then current version of GuildWiki's Sorrow's Furnace Boss Locations page (which also omitted Rago from the unaccompanied boss pool) as a reference. Rago's been re-added. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 23:34, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Spawn sets

While accompanied by Orozar Highstone, NPC spawns can be divided into three groups. Those which seem to be there from the start (although we generally can't verify it, as the gates don't open until someone takes the quest), those which spawn while following Orozar and progressing on Noble Intentions and those which don't spawn until Noble Intentions Plan B has been taken. NPCs in the latter two groups are clearly quest-related, so the quest and location formatting guidelines are clear on how those should be handled, but how should we handle the first group? Should we include them in the Noble Intentions quest article, and, if so, should they be kept in their own subsections, or should they be mixed in with the NPCs in the waves? If not, where should they be listed? What about NPCs encountered while entering with Galen Trask (without taking Cold One, Fire in the Hole, Gathering Resources, Unruly Slaves or Wrenches In The Gears), High Priest Alkar and Kilroy Stonekin, should they be treated as quest spawns for Summit Slaves, Unspeakable, Unknowable and Kilroy Stonekin respectively because quest and non-quest spawns cannot easily be separated, or should they be handled in some other way? -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 00:00, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Boss	Unaccompanied	Galen Trask/ Kilroy Stonekin	Orozar Highstone (without quests)	Orozar Highstone with Noble Intentions and Noble Intentions Plan B	The Forge Heart
Spawns	12 of 13	0 of 0	6 of 6	11 of 14	6 of 81
28 (30) Grognard Gravelhead
28 (30) Malinon Threshammer
28 (30) Tanzit Razorstone
28 (30) Drago Stoneherder
28 (30) Graygore Boulderbeard
28 (30) Tarnok Forgerunner
28 (30) Brohn Stonehart
28 (30) Gardock Stonesoul
28 (30) Ivor Helmhewer
28 (30) Bortak Bonesmelter
28 (30) Gordac Fleshweaver
28 (30) Villnar Painforge
28 (30) Garbok Handsmasher
28 (30) Korvald Willcrusher
28 (30) Vokur Grimshackles
28 (30) Galigord Stonestrike
28 (30) Rago Kindlerock
28 (30) Runar Brimstone

1. Rago is a guaranteed spawn. Of the other seven bosses, 2 random warriors, 1 random monk, 1 random mesmer and 2 random elementalist spawn.

Here's a table of the boss pools. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 03:06, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I'd just like to thank you for this table, and I think it would be a nice addition to the page for those primarily coming here for greens. Manifold 19:15, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

I have faced both Korvald and Handsmasher before while doing Forge Heart

After noble intentions is completed but before taking the reward it is possible to move around freely in the forge and fight more bosses than were displayed in the table (e.g. Vokur, Brohn, Galigord, which I have added). I do not know if those would have come to be with Noble Intentions Plan B but after killing one of those bosses suddenly the main chamber fills with new enemies and when you go back to it, Orozar dies. As long as you don't get within range of him he won't die and you can kill other bosses around the map freely. This is particularly nice as you can get Vokur, Bron, Rago, etc. all in one run. Probably the best quest for greens is Noble Intentions.37.201.100.10

HoM Requirement

There's a conflicting issue over what is required for the HoM statue. On this article there are several quests. On the article Honor there is only one quest. Or is the one quest a combination of the others? (I don't think it is but if it is, please forgive my SF naievety as I hardly venture there due to the lack of worthwhile reward) Thanks – josəph 09:57, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

You have to finish the quest The Forge Heart to get your HoM statue. However, to get this quest, you have to finish all the other quests in the chain first, starting with To Sorrow's Furnace (which includes multiple subquests) and then The Final Assault. -- Hong 10:09, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually, if another party member has completed To Sorrow's Furnace and takes Budger Blackpowder and Ennis Granitestrider into Sorrow's Furnace, the entire party will be able to get The Forge Heart. I got it after completing The Forge Heart, but that was on a character who had already completed To Sorrow's Furnace and The Final Assault, so it's possible that only completing The Forge Heart may be insufficient. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 10:00, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Umm, no. After doing allt eh work in Sorrow's furnace long ago, I noted that I didn't have the HoM statue for it, so I marched over to the area and did Final Assault/Forge heart, and it didnt' give me the statue. On the HoM page it says now that one must do all 11 quests in one sitting to get the title. Joy...--98.232.36.96 21:03, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Uh, that's for The Underworld and The Fissure of Woe. For Sorrow's Furnace, you just have to do The Forge Heart - and that's what it says on "Honor" too. It's physically impossible to do "all 11 quests in one sitting" for Sorrow's Furnace considering the fact that you can only do one quest at a time (exception: Orozar's quests) and there are only 8 quests related to the statue (with a grand total of 16, 3 of which cannot be done if you have one of To Sorrow's Furnace or The Forge Heart active). Konig/talk 21:08, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Boss Locations

I've noticed that the list of maps is missing the locations of the bosses that spawn. I'm not quite familiar with the general mechanics of the boss spawns in Sorrow's Furnace, but could someone upload a map with the spawns marked? (Is that possible?) TweSo | talk 00:20, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

I happened to be looking around the quests, and there's a map showing the spawn points: [[1]]. If we could edit out Tharn's location, it would be nice for the main page, eh? Manifold 20:52, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Adding more lore to the page

I was browsing the Featured Pages project list today and I "stumbled" upon this nice gem. I was wondering if we could add some more general lore info about Sorrow's Furnace, for example - The Tome of Rubicon, since I can't even find the word "tome" on that page, even though is probably one great reference to GW2 and future in general. I can analyze in depth this side of the lore and come up with something that might actually be interesting and also that might get this page featured. Markus Clouser 00:53, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Sept 7

Happy 5th birthday Sorrow's Furnace -- Kirbman 19:36, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Congrats! You haven't aged a day! -- Arduin 19:46, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

It has, because of the lack of interest in there now. :(--78.250.229.185 20:17, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Broken Doors

Has anyone else had issues with the doors not working? I can't open them because there is no place to put the master gears. If this is a persistent issue, it should be listed as a bug. --Sahjiarah 17:12, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

It's an oddity of this particular area: you cannot reach certain gates on every visit; it depends on which quest you have active. Unfortunately, when I tested this before, I forgot to record my results, so I just remember the general rules:

• If you have Quest A active, you can reach every area required by Quest A, but perhaps not some of those important to Quest B.
• In some quests, you need to break down wooden fences using Budger's explosives; in others, you need master gears to unlock metal gates.

It's hard to get used to because I think this is the only area that uses this type of mechanic. The closest thing is that dungeons require you to have a quest before you can reach certain areas and some dungeon maps are re-used from mission maps (where the entry requirements differ). — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 17:24, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

This should be mentioned in the article. I find it particularly uninformative. I spent 2 hours trying every combination of gear and running round to make the bloody doors open!!

Missing bosses

Any reason there are only 14 of the 18 bosses in this area listed on this page? I am assuming it is something to do with certain bosses only spawning if the player has a quest active. Of not can someone add the missing ones please. - Korvald Dreamweaver

You're correct. Quest related bosses don't get listed on an area's page. Only the quest page.

But there was another issue with the boss list. ;-D Steve1 (talk) 06:50, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Shame that's the way we do it because I still feel it would be useful information to have with a note about the related quest. I'm curious, what was the issue you fixed on the boss list? :D - Korvald Dreamweaver

Garbok Handsmasher was missing the info regarding his elite skill Crippling Anguish.

Wiki policy can be changed.

Hmmm ... This

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Wiki:Formatting/Locations#Foes

doesn't say anything about Q bosses not being included. Maybe someone more knowledgable can chime in? Steve1 (talk) 18:51, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

The basic idea is that the listed bosses "belong" to that map, while the additional bosses "belong" to the relevant quests. We note when a regular boss is removed from a map due to active quests (as that's abnormal), but we don't state that quest bosses don't exist (as that's normal)... I think I got my negatives correct in there...

Basically, the pathway to information should flow like this:

1. Player wants skill or drop.
   • Player researches boss.
   • Player finds out information about how/where to spawn boss.
2. Player wants to see what's on a map.
   • Player researches map.
   • Player finds out what they should expect, and why things may not be there.
     • Telling a player that a boss may be there if they have a quest active requires them to do side research in their GW account which may ultimately be pointless for most users.

All that said, I believe the quests on this map are repeatable, and as such, the bosses are spawned more often. I have no preferences either way on if the additional bosses are added. G R E E N E R 20:23, 16 December 2015 (UTC)