Talk:Language

Canthan

I found this thread, which has a link to this photo of a Canthan alphabet key, taken by Shi Violet. -- Gordon Ecker 03:12, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Oooo...Nice find! Arduinna 11:52, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I've removed Kaineng. None of the other named emperors are referred to using Kaineng, suggesting that it was part of his name rather than part of his title. -- Gordon Ecker 07:35, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, indeed that's strange none of the others are called Kaineng. But Ermenred writes "In the Canthan tongue, the title went from Kaineng Chang, literally "emperor lord," to "Kaineng Weh no Su," or "Emperor Near to the Stars." So the word Kaineng definitely means Emperor, maybe precisely because it was the name of the first emperor. Maybe it's the same thing with Chang. It was first part of the name of Chang Hai and then went to mean Lord? Later Ermenred continues "the warlord Kaing took the name Kaineng Tah when he declared himself the first lord emperor of the dragon". So indeed Kaineng was his name, just slightly modified. Unless the Kaing/Kaineng homophony is purely coincidental. Hem, that's starting to get a bit confusing! But what annoys me more is the full title Lord Emperor Kaineng Tah! Somewhat redundent. Maybe we should ask Ascalon Press to republish Ermenred's long out-of-print Canthan-Ascalonian Dictionary? - MORTUIЯUS 12:05, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Is this from a magazine article? -- Gordon Ecker 23:01, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

It was from Ermenred's book, An Empire Divided, i forgot to mention. - MORTUIЯUS 09:36, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Not sure where to put this, but I was actually surprised that the words buk, dek, foh and dah aren't mentioned anywhere- to me it always seemed reasonable that these are words for the four major compass points (east, west, north and south, respectively). Minister Cho's Estate gives a good indication of which would be which, while Bukdek Byway references the compass points it is meant to connect. Maybe that's just me, though. :) -- Elv 20:22, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

That seems highly plausible, but it's still speculation and we try our best to avoid speculation on pages. Things may not be 100% accurate though (for instance, "Kai sang|Adjective, appears to be a profanity."). I'm not against adding that, considering the names and locations of the landmarks with those name, but I'm not for it either. I'd say best not to put it up, especially since I don't see how "eastwest byway" would be support for that (and it would mean that there's a guy who's name means East Dirayne). -- Konig/talk 20:42, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

I hadn't added it to the page yet for exactly that reason, but given the vagueness or equally poorly supported tidbits in the article I figured it would be worth a mention on the talk page at the very least. Pongmang is translated as scoundrel for instance, but there is no reason to believe it could not be an entirely different kind of insult. Likewise, kai saing is better described as an interjection- its proper meaning cannot be determined and therefore neither can the word class. It may appear to be an adjective given its use, but interjections can also be verb forms. For that matter, the assumption that it is profanity at all does not belong in the article either, because although it is plausible it cannot be properly supported.

And hey, who said names of people have to make sense? I can think of people with weirder names in real life. I suppose I would say that this guy is a Kurzick, so his name may contain elements resembling the Canthan language that don't actually have any related meaning to said language. That, or his parents just couldn't think of anything better. (On an entirely unrelated note, Tomaat Pass always has me thinking of tomatoes, due to the unfortunate but funny coincidence that tomaat is the Dutch word for tomatoe.) =D -- Elv 21:18, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Well do feel free to rework the Canthan word section. I've been wanting to add a "all known phrases" section like the things Kaolai says in Old Canthan. So if you can rework that table to include those, feel free. I won't stop you. Vagueness isn't entirely good, but it's not bad. -- Konig/talk 21:27, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

The linguist in me is sorely tempted now! Not entirely sure how many known phrases there actually are, though- it might be better left to a page of its own, with minor adjustments to this page as deemed appropriate. -- Elv 23:30, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Archaic Canthan?

Btw, What about the chants in Tahnnakai Temple? They really look Canthan. Since they are magical incantions and all words are monosyllabic, that might be an archaic version of the language? I don't know where to put them, so I put them here... "Yaa ziin, yaa yun...shae yaa, dom vi... / Nao o hoi be mao." - MORTUIЯUS 12:05, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

These should be added to the article - but there's quite a lot and little to go on at the same time. I'll work to see if there was a translation project on this in the past like there was for Old Kurzick (it would still be called Old Canthan, btw, not Archaic or the like - that was just the spoken Old Canthan, what we have right now is the written Old Canthan - excluding that nice little small table). -- Konig/talk 23:16, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Canthan language

→ moved from Talk:Canthan language

+10 internet points for a very well-researched article. Kirenne Starfire [Kw] 22:06, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

all the professions are based off of the symbol for man --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.246.235.96 (talk).

Ancient Canthan

Is there anything known about the A-Z alphabet of Cantha? Like the Old Ascalonian? --62.177.137.96 22:26, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Old Canthan doesn't use an alphabet, but rather what we see - characters representing words (maybe phrases as well), akin to how some (most?) asian cultures have characters that represent words and parts of words. I would surmise that if different characters were put next to each other, they'd make different words/phrases than when alone as well (some names and phrases can be spelled to mean one thing, but means something different due to the combination of the characters, giving it a double meaning). -- Konig/talk 00:01, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

The thing is, im working on my website, and i wanted to write the outposts and towns in the canthan language, as i did with the ascalon language for tyria, how would i solve this? Or would this be impossible? -- Mr HaXx 22:14, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Currently that's impossible. -- Konig/talk 22:28, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Alphabet image

It could be me but it slightly resembles both hiragana and katakana. For example, the upper left letter is exactly the same as the character 'he' (both hiragana and katakana), and the I like letter is the same as the 'e' character in katakana. Furthermore, the second left letter from the bottom row looks like the hiragana 'no'. Just wiki it.Sephira 12:52, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually, Matthew Medina used the Pheonician alphabet to create the Tyrian one. - MORTUIЯUS 11:53, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

For the record, the image referenced is not the "Tyrian" alphabet, but old Ascalonian runes. It is not associated with the spoken "common" language, but does still show up quite frequently in common documents and other writings because of the efforts of many generations of Ascalonian scholars. --Matthew Medina 16:03, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Phoenician

Tyrian

Charr language

→ moved from Talk:Charr language

Slang / jargon

"Kit" and "Cub" are both English words meaning "small animal." Should they really be listed here? I can't remember in what context they are used in-game, so I don't want to remove them without input, but it seems to me that they don't really belong here. Also, "mouse" and "meat" are questionable as well, as Charr characters don't use them unless speaking in Common, which gives me the impression that they are not used in the actual Charr language. --orith is so fail 21:16, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

IMO they should be included, as they have specific connotations which differ from their common meanings, like real-world slang and jargon terms. -- Gordon Ecker 01:50, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Still, it seems to me they are more a part of Charr culture than the actual language... perhaps they should be moved to a separate list on the page? --orith is so fail 21:40, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Thieves' cant is commonly considered a language. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 04:02, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

"Commonly" here defined as...? Not linguists- given the uncertain origins and the even less reliable sources we have to research it, it is more of a pidgin or at best classified as a dialect, if acknowledged at all as something other than slang.

More to the point of the OP, I agree that "cub" and "kit" are out of place in the article; I was surprised to find they were mentioned at all. I do not see how their Charr meaning is so significantly different from their English meaning that they merit a mention- considering the fact that Charr are essentially large cats and that we typically refer to the offspring of large cats as "cubs" I do not think that the explanation of "Juvenile Charr, gender-neutral" is going to be much of a revelation to anyone.

As for the words "meat" and "mouse", I do not think they are worth mentioning as "Charr language" either. Neither word is actually Charr language and although they give the human or "common" word an additional, derogatory connotation, it does not set them apart as part of another language. The Charr use of them is better left mentioned as part of Charr culture and their attitude towards humans (and potentially others). -- Elv 23:57, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

The only "charr language" there is though would be "Hrangmer" and fahrar/crèche. The rest is slang. Or rather, dialects. Not against the removal of them from that table, but it would be wise, imo, to note a "list of racially used slang words" and what they refer to as it would be a language, whether charr or this unnamed "common"/"basic" which may be called human. -- Konig/talk 00:29, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

It would only leave about 4 words specifically Charr in all (if you count titles like Khan-Ur, which has no actual known translation), yes, but it would go a long way towards accuracy to put the rest under "racially used slang" as an aspect of the "common" language. Racial slurs in any language are typically only used among specific groups of speakers anyway. :) -- Elv 01:58, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

COMPLETELY Irrelevant (deletion)

This page is mostly English words and phrases that the Charr use occasionally. It should be deleted outright. I don't even advocate merging this into the Charr article. This page is pointless and makes the wiki look stupid. This is supposed to be a source of definitive knowledge, not some random babblings of the most inconsequential in-game crap. If this article is so necessary, why don't we have language pages for ALL races in the game? This place needs better editors. Nominate to delete. Kirenne Starfire [Kw] 19:32, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I added a brief blurb about the Charr ideograms, hoping to spur further discussion about the Charr's use of ideograms as a primitive "language". If it's still considered irrelevant, then feel free to nuke this page.--Matthew Medina 21:50, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I oppose deletion. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 04:02, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

On what grounds? Having an NPC named after you doesn't mean you don't need to support yourself. Your opinion is not sacrosanct. The only Charr-specific words worth mentioning are Fahrar, Hrangmer, and Khan-Ur, and with proper writing style (something rarely exhibited around here) those words could be seamlessly introduced and defined in the Charr article. Cub is a generic term for several real-world species' young, not just a term endemic to the Charr. If they had their own word that ArenaNet writers came up with, THAT could be significant. As it stands, though, this page is irrelevant. When poking around in the Languages of Tyria category (which, by the way, is also irrelevant due to its overwhelming lack of content), I looked through the Canthan language article. Now, this article is wonderful. It gives a list of common phrases that are in a fictional language, not just random English words you hear in-game and decide to make significant. It also has sixty-four TRANSLATED ideograms, not just a list of limited ideograms that may represent what the Charr honor (which, again, is speculation: they could simply be cryptography symbols). The Canthan Language article is the example of what a lore-research article should be, and until the other language stubs (yes, they're stubs) are brought up to par, they should not exist. I advocate deletion of this article simply because there is not enough in-game evidence to support its relevance, nor even sufficient opportunity to research more. Furthermore, I nominate that all other existing language stubs (Canthan language excepted) be merged with their respective race or culture articles. By GW2 we may have sufficient material to construct a translation and research project, but we have an entirely new wiki for that. Kirenne Starfire [Kw] 22:01, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

You should read the deletion policy. General deletion requires consensus. There is no obligation to explain or justify one's position in a deletion discussion, and I feel that I have already adequately explained my position in the slang / jargon discussion above. As for the information Matthew Medina added, it is not speculative, he's a member of the Guild Wars art team. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 07:34, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

I find your userpage to be full of inconsequential crap. It's pointless and makes the wiki look stupid.

No, really, if there's a reason to have a Bookah article, there's a reason to have a Charr language article. Vili 07:40, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

There isn't a reason to have a Bookah article. Kirenne Starfire [Kw] 08:09, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Then you should hurry up and put a deletion tag on it, because it's COMPLETELY Irrelevant. Vili 08:12, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Good suggestion. Done. Kirenne Starfire [Kw] 16:19, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Trivia?

Is it worth noting that "Common" is frequently used by the fantasy genre when referring to any "universal language" used by various sentient races and one that most non-humans will know as well -- or at least a smattering of it (for practical reasons, ingame language barriers can can bog games down when frequently used). A good example would be DnD's "Common" ("default tongue") used by culturally diverse races and is easily learned but capable of expressing only basic concepts (aka English by default, though "Common" typically is the language being used by the player/reader). Compared to Elven's arcanic-fluid language or Dwarven's pragmatic-runic language, Common is language that evovles with the times and displays a wide variety of debased-dialects, slang-riddens, pudgin variations and a jumbled mixture of every other language. --Falconeye 17:06, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

No, because "common" is a player-base term and Trivia's are for in-game references to other things. If, in game, the language was given the name of "common" then yes, that should be added to Trivia, however, because it is player-base, it should not. -- Azazel The Assassin\talk 22:28, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Various other language pages...

For reference: Charr language, Canthan language, Mo Zing, Weh no Su, Bookah.

Okay, I have been thinking regarding these pages (along with this page, Languages of Tyria). Is there a need for all of these pages? Firstly, on the Charr and Canthan languages pages, the Charr language page is hardly linked to (only this article and the Charr article). I made a preview to see how it would look if that article was merged into this one, and it looked fine. Any reason why it isn't? The Canthan language page I can understand with the long and skinny chart, but perhaps we can find a way to make it wider and not so long? Would probably help, and then that could be merged into this page as well, as well, how I see it, that is a separate article due to the long list.As for the single terms, Weh no Su I partially get due to the similarity to Ascension, but Mo Zing and Bookah? Can't they just get a section in their proper language pages (Canthan language for the first, unless that gets merged into this article, and a new Asura language (which is needed as we have the Asura banners which are translatable, but not yet translated). For the case of being constantly searched, a simple redirect to [[Languages of Tyria#<searched term>]] is all that is needed really. I think this will make it more compiled and easy to document as it will all be in one spot while not overflowing. -- Konig/talk 12:11, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Haa? "More compiled"? What does that even mean? Backsword 06:58, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

It's all in one place instead of being all over and this one article is more complete. -- Konig/talk 13:03, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

i say do it also i dont know if this has been added to the request for coment page yet or not but it should be.- Zesbeer 02:47, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

By looking at the banners and playing around with what each character looks like, I got what seems like a good starting point. Line 1 of the image looks like it says "zya shea iadi yal" and Line 2 looks like "o zya valxil yal". Since the banner is on an item associated with golems, I assume either "zya" or "yal" translates to "golem" because both words are repeated. Rolin 02:30, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Additional Canthan characters

We can also extract more words from the Canthan characters, like:

"Sword" is the cross-like part of the right side of the Warrior character.

Two little swords become "Daggers" on the right of the Assassin one.

As for the Ritualist, there is a symbol trapped between earth and sky which probably means "spirit".

Sunrise, sunset and junk also share the same 3 lines (2 vertical and 1 horizontal). It most probably means "woods".

Cutting the woods with another horizontal line (making it "wood") and placing them on the water leads us to boat.

Extracting the first line in midnight, which is basically night + another line and placing it on day could mean "noon".

If we suppose that line means something like an origin, placing it between sky and earth could give us the number "0".

Life and blood also share the same root which probably means "body" (or something organic).

Since death is actually the opposite of the root of life (body), I wonder if a light sign under it could actually mean "undead".--

Lythis Khan 07:26, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

That's rather speculation. Those symbols for the professions are a unique aspect of the professions - like element for elementalist - but to know what it is is speculation. As proven by the constant use of "probably means." All those things just didn't seem like it's solid proof, so unless you get the maker to say that your right, then we cannot add it to the main page. -- Konig/talk 15:29, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Indeed it is not meant to be added on the main page, it was just an analysis by a philological point of view ;) Anyway the construction of the profession characters are quite clear (it is always "man" + something), at least for warrior and assassin. The only 2 different ones are Necromancer and Mesmer. First one actually integrates "death" in "man", which is a very nice way to enhance the meaning of the profession. Mesmer, mah, no idea, seems like the eye radical and the head/hair radical form a bigger symbol with the right earth part.--Lythis Khan 16:35, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

secrets

those pillars in the realm of tourment and those at the end of the 2nd level of bloodstone caves - has that been added? Getefix 16:14, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Those pillars have Elonian runes, so yes. -- Konig/talk 16:22, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Added a bit in the Elonian section regarding the runes. -- Konig/talk 16:25, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Canthan profession banner

Not sure if anyone has noticed but the banner for the Canthan Professions says it lists all 8 professions yet in the box next to it only 6 professions are entered. Leaving the Ranger and Ritualist out. 94.196.199.96 00:58, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

It's been noticed, but the "box" to the left lists ideograms and names from a separate image, which could be seen [ here]. Though I've figured out which is ranger (it is a combination of man and bow, top left) thus which is ritualist, I haven't added it to the box due to the different style of the image. So unless someone goes and makes fan-designed ones including those two professions akin to how gw2:New Krytan has been put together on the gw2wiki, I'm hesitant to add those two professions. -- Konig/talk 02:30, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

File:Ranger.jpg--Lythis Khan 18:17, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for these icons! I also have thought to complete the table with ideograms of these 2 professions, but you already converted the images well. Indeed, the sign of Ranger is easy to understand because it shows "man" with "bow" (man is a component of all these signs). Not the same situation with Ritualist, the additional graphics has no direct equivalent among known ideograms. It can be imagined as close to combination of "1" and "light", but meaning of this is not obvious for me. Perhaps we need to look more at real Factions inscriptions hoping to find something similar, I suspect that current list of known ideograms is not complete. --Slavic 21:06, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

For naming sake, can those be renamed from File:Ranger.jpg and File:Ritualist.jpg to more in line with the current rest of the canthan icons (for instance File:Canthan script - mesmer.jpg) - so File:Canthan script - ranger.jpg and File:Canthan script - ritualist.jpg. Once that's done, it would be good to add them. @Slavic: We could ask their maker, the language expert of Anet, if there are any more we're missing. But we got these from this image taken from the Anet offices which was called "Beginner's Guide to Canthan" and it seemed to have every icon but those two, at least which I could find in game. And yes, I did look. :) -- Konig/talk 04:17, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

what is the fast way to rename them without having to upload a new one?--Lythis Khan 22:58, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

---

Found New Runes, Possible Origin Of Some Of The Unknown Ones

I was replaying the Proph missions today and found that the Vision Crystal has some weird runes on it. I couldn't take a reliable picture because the thing spins so darn fast but I thought that it should be noted here. The unknown set of runes I would like to talk about is labeled the "Hieroglyphs found throughout the Crystal Desert." on the language page. According to Matthew Medina the same forces that made The Hall of Ascension also made the key to unlocking it aka the stones you step on. Part of getting the stones to unlock the Hall of Ascension is walking on the platform that holds the vision crystal and getting the Divine Fire to activate the stone. This platform also holds these same Egyptian like runes which appear on everything from the teleporters, to the resurrection shrines, to the odd half dug into the side of hill home things in the desert. These things are also found in one place outside of the Crystal Desert in The Lair of the Forgotten in which you can find the pillars that have the Ascension runes on them, the same Resurrection shrine, and the inside wall home things. Lore says that the Forgotten were put on Tyria by the Gods to watch over the other races, it is possible that as being servents for the gods that they also built the Temple of Ascension for the gods and that the Egyptian like runs found everywhere are their language. SajuukKhar 12:23, 20 February 2011

For the vision crystal - was it the individual version, or the merged version?

Regarding what Matthew said, he was referring to the Ascension runes. Those were created by the same forces that made Augury Rock. Those pillars, btw, can be seen in Kourna (Sunspear Sanctuary) and Vabbi (near that "do not touch" door which houses these and the nearby boss). The Ascension runes are heavily tied to the forgotten, as are the heiroglyphs speculated to be (those "odd half dug into the side of hill home things" are speculated by some to be the homes of the forgotten, since an isolated forgotten is found nearby one). But non-the-less, it is speculation. And speculation does not belong on the main articles. I also doubt that they forgotten created the Hall of Ascension/Hall of Heroes (they share the same structures) considering that they house runes not like either the Asccension runes or the hieroglyphs. A single race that is a single group is unlikely to have three different rune sets. -- Konig/talk 20:39, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

For the vision crystal it was the merged one. Also I do agree speculation shouldn't be added to the main page I was just giving out my theory. As for the Forgotten having more the one language Matthew said that the ascension runes were pictograms and IIRC pictograms aren't a language there just representation of something like the radiation symbol and we try to make pictograms readable by other cultures which could explain the difference between them and the speculated forgotten runes, and while Matthew did mention the ascension stones only, they need the vision crystal and the divine fire pad which has the "speculated forgotten" runes on it to work so I assumed(which I know I shouldn't have)they were made by the same force. As for the common runes found everywhere I know I cant back this up so I wont try but I read somewhere once that the overlapping circles were a map of the mists so I thought that the language was God Language or some pre-modern human and the gods brought the forgotten and humans so I assumed it could be the reason why there so close and as for the runes inside the temple I can't explain it. Also I do admit everything I said is pure speculation that I could never prove and I dont want get into another giant argument so ill leave it at this. SajuukKhar 16:26, 20 February 2011

The map of the Mists would be the "alchemy circles" which are seen on the background of various GW1 things. It's never seen in game. And it uses english letters. Regarding the "key" to Augury Rock - I think that's in reference to Divine Fire, and I do believe it was mentioned - or at least implied - that the Vision Crystals were created by the Elonians. The rune circles in the Augury Rock mission is also the same as the teleportation pads which is different from the hieroglyphs, ascension runes, and the runes I noted above found within Augury Rock. I think that the key, and in turn the Hall of Ascension and Hall of Heroes was created by something other than the forgotten - perhaps whatever those golden angel-like statues are depicting (which shares the same design as the statue of Melandru and all depictions of Dwayna along with the harpies which are believed in-game to be former servants of Dwayna). I think the "force" which created them would be said group of beings - i.e., the gods and/or the race Dwayna and Melandru may belong to. -- Konig/talk 22:48, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

The map of the mists I was talking about is on the picture called "A ramp with the runes seen in the Underworld, the Catacombs, and the path to the Hall of Heroes." the overlapping circles also found on the Do Not Touch Door. As for the teleportation runes I think there due to their repeating nature and that it looks like the magic lightning is charging them that they are just magic runes there not supposed to have a real purpose beyond being magical, like the runes under the eye of Janthir that Matthew said had no lore there just there to look cool. As for the vision crystal the ghostly hero said his people failed to assemble it, weather they built it I cant say but I always read it as the vision crystal was there beforehand, they kept it separate so that no one would screw up till the other tests were done then greed drove them apart, also since the light that hits the Augury Rock teleporter runes that enables the divine fire comes from the vision crystal I dont see how the key would work without it. As for the Hall of Heroes and Ascension Temple being made by other beings that work for the Gods, or being the race the gods come from, it does seem logical. It would explain why there's such a big difference from all the items with the "speculated Forgotten Runes" and the inside of the Temple. It could be the temple itself was made by these God Beings and that all the outside things such as the pad that holds the vision crystal in Augury rock which have the "speculated forgotten rune" were made by the forgotten. it would solve most of the apparent rune inconsistency. ohh yes theres also some runes found on the ramps outside Destiny's Gourge and on The Temples of Balth and Grenth that arnt on the language page yet. SajuukKhar 17:11, 20 February 2011

Whether you were talking about one thing or another, what is a map of the mists would be what I said - as confirmed by anet devs (though strangely enough not documented anywhere on the wiki...). -- Konig/talk 23:58, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I've seen the overlapping cirlces you've been refereing to in the Underworld and a few other places. My initial thought was they were supposed to represent the Five Blood Stones.--Will Greyhawk 19:24, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Vizu says..

I quote: "Rai, cambah nuang!" after hearing about Togo's death. Swearing, anyone? (Should/can I add this?)-- Necro Shea Mo 03:20, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

You can, but I wouldn't - there's a lot more "Old Canthan" phrases which are not on this page. I'd personally like for them all to be placed up, but no speculation as to the meaning. Some of the phrases up there already should be looked over as well, imo, as some are speculation. Konig/talk 16:35, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Well, first off, I think Canthan deserves its own page (there's alot of it after all!), and those phrases (I almost spelled that with a 'f' :0) that are not on there should be added. Honest, it's not very accurate if it doesn't have all the Old Canthan on it. If you're going to argue that it would be too big than read the first sentance of this comment.-- Necro Shea Mo 05:00, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Oooh! And, off topic, good bye simon and hello vizu!-- Necro Shea Mo 05:02, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

First off, Canthan had its own page. But there was so little meat to the article that it was practically just two tables. One of which was very very long (though now condensed). And that's still the case - the Canthan section is 3 sentences, an image, and 2 tables. Not enough to merit being split again. I agree that the phrases should be added, but my main point was that we shouldn't just guess at the meanings of them. And that we should remove the guesses that are on the list. Perhaps link to the area where the phrases are as well. Konig/talk 05:31, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Made a few changes:

• Added "Kaineng" and "Chang" per literal translations of "Kaineng Chang" and "Kaineng Weh no Su" from An Empire Divided.
• Added the Vizu line, along with other lines from Tahnnakai Temple.
• Removed any statements of presumption on meaning of words/phrases.
• Removed "Wandering Blade" from Mo Zing, as I found no source for such on this wiki or guildwiki.org
• I wanted to add Shing Jea as I recall that being said to be ancient Canthan for "Shining Jewel" and Shing Jea Monastery's description supports that, but I couldn't find where this was explicitly said.
• Removed the image from Tahkayun, as it just broke flow of the table.

Whether meanings are added or not is tbh, irrelevant to me. So long as it's noted that it's not an explicit meaning, but rather a description of what it means (e.g., Pahbahzhen is only known to be a form of greeting, it doesn't mean "Greeting" whereas Kaineng does literally mean "Emperor"). Konig/talk 06:09, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Awesome! Just FYI, I'm not sure Kaoli(the rit in Tahnnaki)'s dialogue is Canthan...-- Necro Shea Mo 06:12, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

It is. He's Canthan. From before the time of the Exodus. Considering we're including terms like Chang and Kaineng - the former being from the time shortly after the Exodus and the latter being from hundreds of years prior - I think Kaolai's fits in. Konig/talk 06:26, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Ok! That makes sense! (Did you look at my link?)-- Necro Shea Mo 06:45, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Djinn

Do too speak common: Dehjah, for instance.-- Necro Shea Mo 20:32, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Oh, and doesn't one of the titans speak common also?-- Necro Shea Mo 20:32, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

In regards to the first two times those were removed: "Djinn, titans, and undead are not races" - djinn are spirits, titans are constructs made via twisted spirits, and undead should be self-explanatory. This is following "Known species that speak "common:"". Djinn and titans are capable of speaking "common" but they are not a race. We do not add spirit because they are not a race - a spirit of a human who spoke common will be capable of speaking common, that is the same situation for djinn, titans, and undead. If we go by Magamdy's reasoning, that list is highly incomplete. We would need to list Margonite, Spirit, Afflicted, among others. And then you also need to go into how one would list "creatures" (the term Magamdy uses) - in one way, Margonite and undead wouldn't count, but would rather be Demon and Skeleton/Zombie/Mummy; in another way Margonite, undead, spirit, etc. don't count per my above reasoning. Either way, the list is wrong. I try to correct it to the less "grawr!" method of listing - listing lore-based species only, rather than the combination of species and the "after death" versions of said species. Konig/talk 20:49, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

I think you're assuming an overly narrow definition of spirit for Djinn. Nothing points to them being spirits of humans or other races. 24.197.253.243 21:11, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

I agree with the IP, Djinn really should be considered their own race.-- Necro Shea Mo 23:37, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

*ahem* "Djinn are spirits with deep ties to the Elonian continent" Djinn. Very. First. Sentence. Nothing says they're spirits of humans, nor have I said such. When I said a spirit of a human I was referring to ghosts such as Sarah or Benton or Murakai, Lady of the Night, and so forth. There are some djinn in Eye of the North which come across to me as being spirits of charr - specifically speaking, Burning Spirits which share charr shouts (some of which make no sense for non-charr) - iirc, only those in Sacnoth have said shouts, though that I'm of little certainty about. Konig/talk 00:03, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

I don't see such snout in the wiki picture...-- Necro Shea Mo 02:04, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Nothing ever says that spirits have to mimic the body's form. Keep in mind that throughout GW there are "formless spirits" such as those coming out of the Door of Komalie, seen throughout Halloween, or are in the River of Souls. These are not NPCs and their race is never given, nor can one tell what their race is, due to their lack of shape. Also note that there are some ghosts, such as Phantoms and Wraiths which are souls but lack a clearly racial shape. Nightmares are also spirits, and once more, many take shape of things unlike races we've seen. Like I said, "come across to me", e.g., it is a theory on my part, but there's plenty of evidence which heavily implies - if not outright states - that spirits don't necessarily take on the form of the body. Konig/talk 02:23, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Djinn are "spirits" in the same sense as Kirin; they're supernatural beings. There is no relation to souls or the mechanical spirit. Regarding the charr-shouting djinn in Sacnoth, as an isolated example, they seem to be a bug. 24.197.253.243 07:42, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Wouldn't everything, technically, be supernatural so long as they could use magic - as such, humans in Tyria are supernatural. I don't think we really know enough about kirins to classify the meaning. However, considering Celestial Kirin, and what celestials are (human souls that have taken on the shape of constellations), I wouldn't doubt that they are spirits and not in the sense you mean. Konig/talk 07:54, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

"Old Krytan was hard to use" - rubbish

Well, the reasons given are rubbish, anyway. In fact, they sound just like a description of English spelling, with the sound of a letter depending on which other letters are next to/near to it, and in what order. Consider, for a moment, the "a" in "what". Remove the "w", and the "a" changes from a short "o" sound to a short-flat "a" sound because the word becomes "hat". Rearrange the letters by swapping the "t" and "w", and "what" becomes "thaw" and the "a" becomes part of the "aw" dipthong (compound vowel), and does not sound like either the short "o" or the short-flat "a".

The same is true of most European languages, especially those where long vowel sounds are spelled with multiple vowel letters. Consider the difference between "ei" and "ie" in German - one is an "ee" sound and the other is a "eye" sound. It's not just European languages, either. The kanji (lightly adapted Chinese characters) used in Japanese writing all have multiple readings, and can sound very different depending on the kanji or hiragana characters around them. The same Chinese characters, when used to write Chinese language, have even more readings, in extreme cases up to 13, depending on, well, stuff.

So, as a reason to not use a script for writing a language, that earns a big fat FAIL. Cynique 14:33, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Old Krytan sounds more on par to some Asian characters - representing not letters but sounds. In other words, it wouldn't translate into "a b c d e f g" etc. etc. but "Ah bah cah dah fah gah" and placing two next to each other would make it a different sound (e.g., "ahbah" becomes "sha"). In other words, you can write English and removing/moving one letter and you'd still get teh saem-ish wrods - or rather, you'd still be able to read it. But, theoretically speaking, if you have five Krytan characters you may get the word "Abracadabra" - switch two in the center and you'll end up getting "Government." That's how it's hard, from my understanding.

Or, as Matthew puts it: "Here's an example of what I mean. Let's imagine two Old Krytan glyphs: By themselves, one sounds like "AH" and the other sounds like "MUH". When you combine them to make a simple word, depending upon their order, you could either create the word "ACH-MEH", or if you reversed their positioning you would have the word "MIH-YEH"." It's a lot different from going from a "ah" sound to an "aw" sound to an "a" sound (or e/eye/eh sounds). Perhaps it's the article which makes it seem rubbish (not being clear enough), and not the reason that it is - paraphrasing can cause inaccuracies. Konig/talk 19:01, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Uppercase

Does anyone know which languages actually have an uppercase rather than just use larger forms of the lowercase letter? C The 18:54, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

To our knowledge, uppercase doesn't exist in any of them, not even in the form of being larger. Konig/talk 20:10, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

I just don't get it.

This is all I came up with for the Asuran banner:

---

Z(o? c?)y a/x S tl/h s a/x J a/x 5/J j y a/x l

0/O Z(o? c?)y a/x 7 a/x l 3/? j l y a/x l

Zoya/Zoyx/Zcya/Zcyx/Zya/Zyx Stlsa/Stlsx/Shsa/Shsx Ja5j/Jajj/Jx5j/Jxjj

0/O Zoya/Zoyx/Zcyx/Zcya/Zya/Zyx 7al3jl/7xl3jl yal/yxl

Zoya/Zoyx Shsa Ja5j 0 Zoya/Zoyx 7al3jl yal

Zoya-russian girl's name

Shsa-abbreviation for lots of stuff

Ja5jl-January 5 possibly.

• Top Google responses:
  • J.L. Mann High School students moved into their new building
  • J.L. Wallace awarded contract for Premier Auto in Cape Coral, FL.
• Both totally irrelevant-however-they do both have to do w/construction.

7al3jl-absolutly nothing

Yal-programing language, Boeing YAL-1, Adar river-South Sudan

---

So.... all in all-Girl Abbreviation Construction Nothing Programming. Help please??-- Necro Shea Mo 00:58, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

What I don't get is how you even got letters. Just because they look like English letters doesn't mean they are. Also keep in mind that the asura language holds mathematics in it and that Matt said that it wouldn't make sense to non-Tyrians. Konig/talk 02:53, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Oh. So the numbers would make sense. Uuuuummmmmzzz... I try again later. This brain bending.-- Necro Shea Mo 19:12, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Grawl

"Oot" is not the only word Grawl use. Casters (Crones, Shaman and Ulodytes as I have observed) frequently make a sound which I would phonetically approximate as "yub-hyuk". I would conclude that it roughly translates as something similar to "Holy @!#$ that hurts"  :) Gwynna Vive 10:02, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

The sentence refers to text, not sound effects (as the latter is not able to be told accurately, and besides the sounds mursaat make are angelic according to the Prophecies manual - but the sound effects sound mechanical to me). Besides, it's a little out of date no? Konig/talk 21:58, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Bookah / Buka

"or the Polish cartoon character Buka, which is a giant monster that grunts and scares families." - 'Buka' is actually the Polish version of The Groke from Moomins (this being: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Groke), and although most Polish players think of it as soon as they see 'Bookah' in the game, it's not a 'Polish cartoon character', and it scares the Moomins and little kids watching the show rather than families. 87.99.40.47 11:38, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Elonian alphabet image

I think this image should be edited: the image shows a 10x12 grid, however there are only 5x12 different letters, the five bottom rows are actually the five upper rows but upside down. What do you think? (JohnMcKee (talk) 09:12, 17 March 2014 (UTC))

That that is still twice too many characters, as there are only 30 unique characters in the alphabet following that logic. The rest is mirrored either horizontally, vertically, or both. Infinite - talk 15:46, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

File talk:Elonian alphabet.jpg. Konig says the image is repeated 4x. -Chieftain Alex 16:25, 17 March 2014 (UTC)