Talk:Shiro Tagachi

Spoiler Warning

Isn't saying this is a spoiler for Factions and Nightfall a spoiler in itself? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:76.194.219.205 (talk).

Some people choose not to read spoilers. Myself included. (Unless of course, I already know it.) MiraLantis 03:02, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Page correction

Assassin Assassin? O_o.. surely that isn't right? --Jamie 03:56, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

It's the icon and then profession name when switched over to the new template that causes problems. - Anja Astor 04:02, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

Yeah, I just fixed that now. Should be fine. --Santax 04:03, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

Assassin?

I took the liberty of changing Shiro's profession to Special seeing as how it is unestablished whether he is an assassin or warrior or ritualist or w/e. If anyone has any objections to this please make your thoughts known.--Firecrown 00:12, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

The Shiro talk page on Guildwiki already covers most arguments a user could make, short of actually having someone from ArenaNet come and chime in. At the moment, he's "Special" there, too (which is, I admit, something I was pushing for specifically to get rid of the speculation). — 130.58 (talk) 03:56, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

I actually don't have a problem labeling him as something other than "special" if we do it consistently. Like, if we have a global standard of labeling things based on archetype. But the thing that happened when people said "Yeah, he's an Assassin because his skills are maybe kinda like Assassin skills" is that Kuunavang ended up being an E/R (on account of using lightning stuff and preparations) and the absurdity just increased from there, and then there was a big argument about Shiro being A, A/W, W/A, A/Rt, or W/A/Rt. So, if we are going to label him as something, I'd really like it to be based on archetype (which is how the lich is a "necromancer" and Kuunavang is an "elementalist") rather than based on his specific abilities. Based on archetype, of course, Shiro's just a warrior. Or he can just keep being "Special" along with Kuunavang, Glint, and the Lich, since they do use non-standard abilities. Anyway, I'm not trying to restart the Guildwiki debate over here. I just want to have a system for labeling special creatures that's actually consistent across the whole bestiary, however it's done. — 130.58 (talk) 04:15, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

First of all, his skills are not "maybe kinda like Assassin skills". They are Assassin skill types. And secondly, the Undead Lich uses a Necromancer skill. --Santax 03:56, 13 May 2007 (EDT)

This discussion can end very quickly once you decide what "profession" in the skill box refers to: The "profession" of normal language (teacher, tailor, assassin) or the "profession" as guild wars class (warrior, mesmer, assassin). He is definitely not an assassin in the later view, but might be one on the former (though I would go with bodyguard there personally, seeing how he never really "worked" after killing the emperor). --Xeeron 13:31, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

Yeah. That's the question I was alluding to. You just have to apply it consistently. I would just label all the creatures that are more special than bosses as, well, just "special," because that communicates their game-mechanical status (they get unique abilities, aren't bosses you can cap from, &c.). — 130.58 (talk) 16:58, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

As far as I'm aware, we label Guild Wars NPC's on this Guild Wars wiki by their Guild Wars profession. But seriously, here are the points that I made on the GuildWiki talk page:

• He shadow steps. Assassins are the only class that can do this. Necrmancers and elementalists can teleport, but that is completely different to shadow stepping.
• He double-strikes. Assassins are the only class that can do this.
• He has two blades. Assassins are the only profession that can dual-wield. After killing him, you can either choose both blades or one. Just because you can choose to wield one of his blades does not make him a warrior. Don't you think he'd have a shield, an axe or a hamnmer too?
• The fact that he uses the same character model of a warrior is irrelevant. In fact, there's a possibility that he uses the same model as a ranger - you'd have to see an emote to tell. Morgahn uses a warrior model, Eve an ele, Mhenlo a ranger and all Am Fah Assassins use the ranger model. It's simply the way he was designed.
• It is explicitly stated in the PRIMA guide on more than one occasion that he is an assassin. Seriously, guys, the PRIMA guide is cited in the manual and is a reccomended buy. Your argument is that the guide is innacurate, but actually it was just based on preliminary information and out-of-date before the game was released. Any lore contained in it is considered canonical. --Santax 16:21, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

His Guild Wars professions is "doesn't have one," as evidenced by the fact that he has completely custom abilities and is outside of the usual system for statting up monsters within the game. You can talk about what professions he most resembles and therefore might be categorized as, in which case those arguments are fine, but to say that Shiro actually has a game-mechanical profession is meaningless. This is why I'm insisting that there be a specific rule for unique creatures across the board, either based on "let's all speculate based on similarities to other, non-unique creatures" or "let's just label them as unique creatures." Better to do one or the other than to have it all be inconsistent like Guildwiki.

And, if that's the case, the yardstick is the easiest unique creature to typecast (the Lich) vs. the hardest (probably Glint or Abaddon). If you want to say "Shiro is an assassin," the real argument is "Glint should be called a ... on her page." If you want to say "Shiro is special," the real argument is "We should label the Lich as a special character despite his necro skills." — 130.58 (talk) 02:14, 12 May 2007 (EDT)

Except Glint's profession isn't explicitly stated or even mentioned in any official sources, multiple times. From the Guild Wars Factions Official Guidebook, written by ArenaNet staff, it says about the Assassin:

"The Assassin profession was a natural outgrowth of a culture divided between nobility and the common folk for as long as any in Cantha can remember. Assassins originally fitted a simple need for Canthan nobles - the ability to quickly eliminate a single rival or enemy, with a minimum of fuss or bother on the part of said nobles. Assassins were and are hired or (more often) kept on retainer for this very purpose even today."

Do you think shiro drops an elite assassin tome if you solo him in hard mode?

"As the ranks of the nobility grew, most Assassins were required to keep up with demand, and they soon began to organize into their own unions and guilds to ensure fair payment for the Assassin and to establish rules and regulations that govern the profession's work. Eventually these organizations became self-perpetuating, and now few Assassins work for only one client. Those who have - including, according to the histories, the Betrayer called Shiro Tagachi - are usually employed as bodyguards to the most powerful Canthans."

There are also more mentions:

"The emperor's bodyguard, a talented young Assassin named Shiro Tagachi who could trace his family back to Kaineng Tah's concubines..."

"A master of the Assassin's disciplines, Shiro was the Emperor Angsiyan's bodyguard..."

"... no Assassin in Cantha was unaware that one of their discipline protected the divine ruler of the empire..."

I don't think you can really refute the claim that he is an Assassin :/ --Santax 03:56, 13 May 2007 (EDT)

I dont think that what the manual says has any relevance here. He uses no assassin skills and just because he does things only assassins can do doesn't necessarily mean he is one. The Lich is a necromancer because he actually uses necromancer skills. Shiro however uses unique skills that no profession uses so he is not any of them. That he uses two SWORDS says that he was just really strong. Assassins use daggers. Not swords. Shiro wields two swords as can be seen in the preview cinematic. So to sum up, he doesn't use assassin skills or assassin weapons, nor does he use skills and weapons from any profession meaning that he is in fact special and not any playable profession. End of story.--Firecrown 12:40, 13 May 2007 (EDT)

In that case, what professions are Prophet Varesh and Commander Varesh? Your logic is flawed. And I think the official guide does have some relevance here, as it specifically states Shiro's profession multiple times. To say it doesn't have any relevance would be saying that it isn't anything to do with the game. --Santax 10:43, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

Idk about Commander Varesh, probably a para since Enemies Must Die! affects all allies, but Prophet Varesh is a dervish. Think about it, Varesh uses a scythe, she uses enchantment collapse, earth vortex. In the guild wars nightfall manuscript, it clearly states that Wind Prayers deal cold damage, since Frost Vortex deals cold damage. I'd say Prophet Varesh is a Dervish/Necromancer.Ace 03:15, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Santax, I think I *can* refute the claim that he is an Assassin, actually, depending on what the criterion for labeling something with a profession here is. You're arguing that special monsters still deserve profession labels, despite the fact that they have a lot of game-mechanical ambiguity. Which is why Commander Varesh is a Paragon, for example. I'm inclined to agree. The reason I agree is that ANet is pretty transparently taking a less essentialist stance with regard to skills and professions these days (note the huge growth in non-profession-specific skills and plans to add even more). This would make Shiro an Assassin because he is most like an Assassin, despite lacking some features of the profession and having features of others. So, if we define professions loosely (I think we should), he's an Assassin. If we define them tightly, he's "Special." — 130.58 (talk) 12:09, 18 May 2007 (EDT)

has anyone tried pm'ing shiro and ask him for yourself? just a thought, but add him to friends list, pm him, and ask. simple.

I pm'd him, he said hes actually a monk. And he told me to tell you guys to quit killing him constantly,said hes tired of asking for a rez. 216.119.178.127 18:42, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Shiro's a special class. Shadowsteps exist for elementalists too, so shadowsteps aren't a valid point. Character model looks like X is never a good point to make. The fact that a manual says something is hardly a good point, as many things in a manual stay the same even as the game changes (WoW and GW being my two best examples). In the end, I think taking a look at the fact that he's simply entirely different than any playable profession in guild wars suggests that he is in fact, "Special". The end.72.161.115.13 05:58, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

He's called an assassin in multiple instances, he wields daggers, he double-strikes, he shadow steps, he bows to a team of 8 assassins. He's an assassin.

Actually, he could be a W/A if not for the fact that he can crit a lot with his attacks. Higher ranks in dagger mastery allows double-striking, but it doesn't allow higher crit chance. Also the part about him bowing to a party of 8 sins, since he respects them. To an assassin, using blinding powder is fighting honorably. Paddymew 05:26, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Critical Strikes. King Neoterikos 06:27, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Exactly. Without that, you can't crit with daggers. Paddymew 12:55, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Please read Critical#Scoring a critical hit. – Emmett 12:57, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Retcon: Without that, you don't crit as often with daggers as Shiro does, even if your target is 11 levels below you. Paddymew 13:46, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

He can't be a W/A, because if your primary is warrior, you can't double-strike. In the prima guide, it claims he performed rituals and such when the fortune teller enticed his dark side. I think he's an A/Rt, and we know his primary is a sin.

A W/A with points in Dagger Mastery can double strike as well as any Assassin. But everything hints at him being an A/W or A/Rt. Paddymew 08:20, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Why not just ask anet to comment on it and end the discussion? Drogo Boffin 08:21, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

I think a lot of issues need their attention more than this, and a lot of questions people have asked them haven't even been answered. Paddymew 16:37, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Why is it written in PoV style?

Seriously why is it written in PoV style? Also it says spoilers while it obviously isn't a bigger spoiler than the handbook that arrives with GW. Sith talk 08:27, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm, has been in since the first edit. Maybe it is text taken from somewhere else? Anyway, this is a wiki: If you dont like it, edit it =) --Xeeron 09:52, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Is an assassin

In hard mode he drops elite assassin tomes. (only sin bosses can do this) Therefor he is an assassin boss. If this is not true, anet has completely disregared any form or standard for any npc when they made him. --Lou-Saydus 18:30, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

This confirms that Shiro is an Assasin, just as Doppelganger is considered a monk because he drops monk tomes.--Bold Baby Undies 21:43, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Assassin without assassin skills

If you have the guide book u can see that Chkkr Locust Lord is an assassin but have cry of frustration - wich is a mesmer skill - on. That means that shiro is an assassin but just have some different skills and weapons! xD

I'm assuming you are referring to the Prima guide? It is so full of wrong and outdated information that it isn't worth referencing. - HeWhoIsPale 16:47, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Banashing

When Shiro banishes it's annoying coz a shiro'ken comes and adds to shiro's dmg, i don't know, but, if the banished person gets to the top of the island thing and comes back does the shiro'ken die?

Yeah they die. But a faster way is to focus fire on the shiro'ken the moment it gets up. This will also get you back your party member. - Damadmoo 19:56, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

and morale bost so Celest' skills come back Zachariah Zuan. 15:20, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Apropos of nothing

... "Taste my twin blades of torment, bay-bee!" would be an interesting pickup line. -- Hong 14:16, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

so he has dual genitals? Zachariah Zuan 10:38, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

He also uses Impossible Odds. Paddymew 12:19, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Shiro

→ moved from User talk:Gaile Gray

So i was fighting shiro with heros and henchies, when he started banishing them.. the wiki page says he doesnt banish when you're alone, but he certainly did, and they lack the AI to get back 24.141.45.72 04:13, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Shiro doesn't banish heroes, but he does banish henchmen. (Why is this on Gaile's talk page?) -- Hong 04:35, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Hong, I was wondering the same myself! Maybe our friend, User 24.141.45.72 will kindly move this to Shiro's page? -- Gaile 04:38, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Gaile is Omniscient is she not ? :P 124.176.99.176 07:30, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I wish she was...she does a good job of giving us information :) ...but unfortunately, in cases like these she only knows what the devs tell her, and her own speculations. At least, that's what I understand from previous instances. Silver40596

Shiro IS an Asassin. PROVEN

I just happened to notice after I read the above articles, I went back to the Previous page about Shiro's information. When I went to the bottom of the page and it was classified as an Asassin, just go to the bottom and read it yourself.

Spoilers?

There really isn't much 'spoiler' info on this page. Also, a link to the CGI Factions movie could be appropriate (and awesome). — ( ɔ \ ʇ ) uɐɥʇıǝɹ 17:30, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Shiro kills Master Togo and becomes human again then you come in and kill Shiro. The emporer survives. Shiro then dies by your hands and he is banished and will NEVER come back. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Atlantis7827 (talk).

Do note that this comment was in place before the non-quotation description was added. -- Konig/talk 02:57, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Not that powerful for an end-game boss...

They should have maken him more powerful, people (and myself) solo him with assas in both NM and HM, and when 8 ppl are fighting him it's even easier. Ninjas In The Sky 10:43, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

No, it's not 'even easier'. Shiro is hard for most classes. Just because one class can solo him doesn't make him easy. Silavor 23:51, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Most classes could solo Shiro, given the right build, apart from maybe Monks and possibly Paragons. Warriors can simply buff there health up so that they've got 1'001 and then take some high damage skill, Rangers use touch skills or a pet build, Necros can SS him, Mesmers... DeGen, but they'd have to have some srt of skill to heal, Eles - well, just use overpowerd AoE skills and stuff like starburst, Assassins - Build already made, Ritualist could spirit him, although you might have some difficulty there, Dervishes simply need to bring one of the Avatars. Al Dente 19:39, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

FAILFAILFAIIIIL. meditation of the reaper laugh at you. and so does shiro's life restorationOni 16:05, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Um, could you make some sense please? Thank you. --Star Weaver 16:19, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

From what I gathered, he's saying that the idea that most classes could solo Shiro is stupid. Meditation of the reaper would keep that from happening in SS's (Dunno the proper way to make that possessive...) case, eles have nearly no armor, so they'd fold like a cheap table in a few hits, the spirit idea MIGHT work, but once Shiro started attacking the rit, it'd be over, the Dervish idea.. Well, the avatars aren't quite that strong my friend. The ranger idea, well it would work if it wasn't for that nasty degen and meditation of the reaper. The warrior idea wouldn't leave enough skill room to deal enough damage to Shiro before he'd kill you as well. Now, I may be wrong, but it DOES look like this to me. Chiyu! 13:54, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

You do know that Meditation of the Reaper has (Or used to have) a range, don't you? That problem is now gone. Now every class can go without fear of him. You might need a stance ending attack aswell though, for Battle Scars. Ele's have this skill called Ward against Melee and Magnetic Aura. There is a way with the Rt to 'cheat' per se, but you may need another person in your party, but they could just be like a walking corpse. Avatar of Dwayna heals you on attack. Warriors, ok agreed, they might have problems but still, MOST classes could solo him. Especcially in HM, he seems to be easier then... Al Dente

If you throw in another person (the "walking corpse"), he can banish either of them. --RoyHarmon 02:23, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

He IS a Sin

Let's be honest, the Manusscripts say it. He wields daggers. There is a weapon called 'Shiro's Blades', which are daggers. Just because he doesn't use any assa skills, he still is one.. Koen 09:34, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

+ He doublestrikes. Koen 09:48, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Everyone can use daggers, and there is a sword called Shiro's blade or something like that... 68.78.64.125 22:39, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Everyone can use swords. Zenikoetsu 07:00, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Not an assassin. Dual striking can be done by anyone in the game wielding a dagger like weapon (or even Sai which are not weapons.) What you think are "daggers" he's wielding are actually swords, reguardless of what the game calls them. Anyone who's got basic fifth grade reading skills can read up on what real Butterfly Swords are, and then look at the Butterfly Sword in the game and see a very, very big difference. Manuscripts call him an assassin, which is by definition, a professional killer. My ranger's a professional killer. Kills humanoids for money and reputation, kills white mantle, and charr leaders to further his own agenda... that's very assassin-like. By the logic there, Everyone in this game that's done a few quests is in fact, an assassin.72.161.115.13 06:16, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

He drops sin tomes in hard mode. That's enough evidence for me.198.37.19.137 20:01, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Dual-wielding in Guild Wars is reserved for sins. What skins are used for his weapons don't matter, seeing as ANet recently released dagger skins that are actually pairs of sword skins, dual-wielded. Also, he drops sin tomes, and is, according to the lore, an assassin. Paddymew 08:34, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

holy crap, then when my ranger is using daggers (using the same battle animation as shiro btw) I'm not dual wielding?!??! I think he's a R/A, lets face it he has the best stances in the game, and so do rangers!!^^The Alice 14:16, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

He's an assassin primary - he drops sin tomes. With NPCs, model/emotions/animations has nothing to do with the profession. Mhenlo is a monk pure and simple... he uses ranger animations. Eve is a necromancer, but uses elementalist animations. Kisu is a ritualist who uses warrior animations. And so forth. -- Konig/talk 23:34, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Easy Kill for Elementalist

Arcane Echo

Echo

Celestial Storm

Intensity

Pain Inverter

"Finish Him!"

Blank

Blank

For this mission, get all 'punching bobs' like warrior dervish. Or get more ppl who shouldnt make a move. Only elementalist do the hard work.

Get Celestial Storm from kuunavang as soon as mission start. Then run quickly to trigger cinematic.

After the cinematic, call or flag all your punching bobs before the stairs. Activate Arcane Echo, Echo, Celestial Storm, AE, Echo and arcane again! If someone has banished, a bound spirit will spawn under the storm which nearly killed instantly. After it, celestial charges all recharge... call the 3 Celestial storms again!

Intensity, paininverter and finish him are only needed if you want to get faster shiro killed. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:RoyHarmon (talk).

That is all well and good if your ele has gotten all three pve skills you have on that bar. Chances are very good however that an ele getting to Imperial Sanctum for the first time hasn't. -- Wyn 03:44, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I just tried this on my ironman ele, and did not need the PvE skills at all. I actually fat-fingered my skills and wasted AE, so it turns out I didn't even need that either. Just the 2x Celestial Storm was enough because it reset from the first Shiro'Ken mob. Mdbauman (talk) 22:06, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

I have now updated my build... replace Finish him off with By ural's hammer and add the 2 attacks wastrel worry and a run skill into. I manage to do it NM and HM in 70 seconds.

Arcane Echo

Echo

Celestial Storm

Intensity

Pain Inverter

"By Ural's Hammer!"

Storm Djinn's Haste

Wastrel's Worry

"Shiro cannot be knocked down"

apparently he can. 144.118.194.45 17:12, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

New(?) Bug

For the first time since Factions came out (and at least a few dozen Shiro kills) I had him go into Meditation of the Reaper and not come out for the rest of the fight. Anyone else noticed this happening recently or is this just an old undocumented rare bug? 98.219.48.111 15:02, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

I do Shiro once ina while for testing stuff or helping friends. I do it about 10 times a week, and have been playing for 2.9 years, and have had this bug once. Don't worry about it, it's just a rare bug. --'DAVA 16:07, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

I noticed it today i posted it on the page of medition becouse i forgot about the talk but the strange thing is tht he takes dmg

Impossible Odds

I'm surprised nobody has posted complaints on how cheap this skill is.Herculeehz 20:04, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

the only "Cheap" skill is meditation of the reaper...

it's a removable stance, and he's the final boss of a game....The Alice 14:19, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Impossible Odds isn't a stance. — Raine Valen 14:23, 8 Sep 2010 (UTC)

Trivia?

Think it's worth adding a trivia section and mentioning that he's (probably) based on Shakespeare's Macbeth? My reasoning:

• Began as a loyal servant to his country's leader.
• Met an ugly old fortune-teller/witch, who gave a few predictions about his future. Though sceptical at first, he realised she was on to something when the first prediction came true.
• Went crazy contemplating the witch's predictions, culminating in his murder of the emperor.
• Proceeded to go even more batshit crazy.

Admittedly, Shiro's story is cooler than Macbeth's, because [SPOILERS AHOY] whereas Macbeth ascends to the throne and ends up defeated at the hands of his friend, Shiro is instantly murdered and exacts revenge on his three assassins by turning everything within a 30-mile radius to stone. So awesome. --Mme. Donelle 22:22, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

I've read and analyzed Macbeth but it didn't hop in my mind when playing Factions. I'd have to disagree.-- anguard 22:25, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Really? I've studied it in detail too and the similarity struck me instantly. :/ The basic concept of the story seemed to be that Macbeth began as a good person and was corrupted by the witches, causing him to murder the king, go crazy, and suffer a tragic end; the exact same thing happens to Shiro. The endings themselves are different, though they share tragicness, but the beginnings are almost identical. --Mme. Donelle 22:39, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

We could just ask Arena Net. Erasculio 23:39, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Come now. As wiki users, it is our sworn duty to find as much non-existant trivia in the game as possible. (That, and I've already demanded the answer to one unimportant question this month.) --Mme. Donelle 00:31, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Too many radical differences. Entirely different continent, style, execution. Comparing fantasy with other fantasies is never a good idea, there will be parallels wherever you go and there's no real need to list every single one of them. If this one was intended, it's way too subtle and ultimately irrelevant.-- anguard 00:54, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, my point is, it didn't seem subtle to me: as soon as I saw the cutscene in which Shiro talks to the fortune teller, I thought of Macbeth. By the time we saw him kill the emperor I was thinking "this is such a ripoff". That it's set in a different continent is irrelevant: the plot is still the same. (Compare West Side Story with Romeo and Juliet: totally different style, continent, and execution, yet it's clearly the same tale.) I honestly think this was an intentional reference. --Mme. Donelle 01:08, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

I should point out that when I say "ripoff", I'm not being accusatory -- Shiro's story is certainly different enough from Macbeth's that it doesn't come close to being a literal ripoff; but it's still close enough that I'll be surprised if Shakespeare's famous work didn't influence the writers who worked on Factions. It could still be a coincidence, I guess, but... it's a really famous work. --Mme. Donelle 02:05, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Can be knocked down

Shiro can be knocked down by hammer atacks like backbreaker.The duration of the KD is very short but backbreaker(normaly 4 sec) knockdowns for more that usuall knockdown skills screenshots: [1] & [2] these 2 above were NOT taken when shiro was in meditation(there is no dmg by meditation on the left side ) it can be still knocked down in meditation with hammer skills. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Hack (talk). btw sry to the admins i forget i could add this first on talk and not on the offical page

I just did some quick tests on him using Earthbind, Earthshaker, Backbreaker and Wastrel's Collapse, all with 0, 1, 2 and 3 Stonefist Insignias (usind Earthbind only with 0 and 1 Insignia). With Earthbind every Knockdown worked and lasted for 3 seconds (I counted the seconds, though I never play warrior and thus am not very experienced with knockdowns). With any Stonefist Insignias und no Earthbind the Knockdown worked but only lasted for 1 second, the count of the insignias didn't matter. With no Earthbind and no Insignia no knockdown worked for me (not even Backbreaker). So I think that Shiro is immune to any knockdowns but this immunity doesn't prevent knockdown-duration-bonuses. Bernado 22:17, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Um, Stonefist insignias don't stack. Vili 点 22:20, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't matter, I just tested it for the sake of completeness, as it could be, though not very likely, that they stacked, when used against Shiro (never trust the ingame discription). Just took about 30 seconds anyway - faster than checking, if anybody tested, if they stacked with a knockdown that lasts less than 2 seconds. Bernado 22:54, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

They don't stack. Ryuu - talk 22:58, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Technically, there's nothing saying that they don't, it's just to 3 seconds max. Therefore, if someone would normally be knocked down for 1 second, two stonefist insignias should increase the KD to 3 seconds, right? is for Raine, etc. 20:41, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Disregard that - I suck cocks. is for Raine, etc. 20:43, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Some more test on Meditation of the Reaper: Nothing changes, but knockdowns end the meditation as soon as Shiro gets up. 2 out of 8 runs he after that visually remained in the meditation for the rest of the fight, took damage, but didn't fight back. Also I changed the note in the article. Bernado 08:30, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Interrupting Impossible Odds

The article states that Impossible odds is non interruptable, but while doing Gate of Madness last night i clearly interrupted it, but whenever i fight Shiro in Factions, it never seems to get interrupted, would it be logical then to assume that though it is interruptable in NF, it is not in Factions? --Xenktray 15:23, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Asuming your observations are correct, yes it would be logical to assume that. The amount of logic needed for that, however, is quite common in a 4 year old child. Maybe you were asking for someone to reproduce your findings? -Woopdeedoo 17:34, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

He could also be asking others if they had anything to add to this before it gets page'd. Paddymew 04:55, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Uh what..

It could be just that i'm slow but I fail to see how shiro became such a badass.. I mean he killed the emperor because he honestly believed that the emperor was going to kill him... Now suddenly he's the uber evil villain trying to achieve world domination =\ --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User: 116.14.30.170 (talk).

I'm assuming you haven't played Nightfall. That game answered the question in a few side quests on the side. I won't bring spoilers to this discussion though. -- Azazel The Assassin\talk 07:06, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

This question equals questioning the motivation of every single enemy you fight in the game. Pretty unneccesary... Paddymew 15:08, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Highest Level Enemy?

Is Hard Mode Shiro the highest level enemy in the game at level 33? All the other endgame bosses (Lich, Destroyer, Abbadon) are 32 in Hard Mode as are some other enemies, for instance in the underworld, but I can't think of any which make it to 33.

In Normal Mode, Shiro and Glint are the highest two. In Hard Mode, Shiro alone holds that title. Actually... come to think of it, do R.O.X., P.O.X., and N.O.X. have HM levels? -checks their wiki pages- Hmmm, only R.O.X. lists a HM level, which is listed at level 29. Which I find unlikely for no level change between NM and HM. Either way, they are not near one of the highest NM levels so I doubt they would match Shiro in HM level. So yes, Shiro is the singular highest leveled enemy in the game. -- Azazel The Assassin\talk 01:05, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

A pointless nugget of information. Sounds perfect for the trivia section. ;) Does Glint not change level between nm & hm then?

--The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:90.192.49.1 (talk).

Please sign your comments with four tildes ~~~~. Drogo Boffin 00:14, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

He may be the Highest level enemy, but the highest level creature is the KT29-Moahawk as of april fool's day, 2011 :) Scar Of The Lotus 17:39, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Alpha Tyrannus. Manifold 17:58, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm a bit late to this topic, but look up the titans from Prophecies. Some of them have the ability to reach level 40. Kozume 22:32, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Why is Shiro an Envoy?

I've always wondered: how is it that the once-bodyguard-turned-slayer of the 26th Emperor of Cantha ... whose very cry turned the forest to stone and the sea to jade ... how is it that he is an Envoy? (In the end cinematic of Vizunah Square, Emissary Heleyne says "He's shirking his responsibility as an envoy.") Wouldn't being an Envoy be some sort of privilege? In mortal life, Shiro was corrupted, right? I just cannot connect how the most evil of souls is granted the tremendous power of being an Envoy. And if the status of being an envoy is revocable (as was apparently the case with Shiro upon his second slaying), why would it not have been revoked the moment he was so evil and corrupt as to slay the Emperor? --ZeeWabbit 20:04, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

From the Envoy article, "From lore, all envoys were once wicked criminals in life, forced by Grenth to serve as soul shepherds as punishment." -- Brains12 \ talk 20:06, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Well geez, that was too obvious. Thanks. (Seems remarkably dangerous somehow.) --ZeeWabbit 21:57, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Solo Banishing

I run this mish as an assassin and ever since the June 18 update, Shiro has been randomly banishing me even when no one else was aggroing him. Also, Silent Minority seems to have no effect. The update info said nothing on this. Has anyone else experienced this and can anyone provide information?--Shai Halud 17:13, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I will go and do the mission solo to check this. You could upload an image for proof, or wait for confirmation. :P -- Azazel the Assassin/talk 04:21, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

That happened to me too Shai Halud.--Bive 19:41, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

I've also had the same problem. Ryuu - talk 22:57, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't seem to happen if you kill him fast enough, but only the Ele Rusher build can do this reliably. Still any party with two necros using spoil victor and spiteful spirit will likely defeat shiro hands down.--Shai Halud 14:55, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Guild Symbol

Is it just me, or does Shiro's guild symbol closely resemble the design for Abaddon's head? I just noticed it while looking at the pages in Night Falls and Shiro's Return. --RoyHarmon 03:41, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Well Shiro was (indirectly) corrupted by Abaddon, so it could mean something. But I don't know if ANet even thought of Abaddon before concepting Nightfall. Paddymew 07:38, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

It looks to me more like a claw. —Jette 09:31, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, a claw with "fingers" that look slightly like Abaddon's hair. Paddymew 22:41, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Shiro is a guild...? Okkkay......... - GreenEarth28

No, Shiro's in a guild. A guild with an unknown name. -- Konig/talk 20:02, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Need Hack

I can't kill R.O.X beacauese i am not in a high enough level. Do someone know a hack or something?

oh yeah I remember now R.O.X. is Shiro's creation, you see Shiro isn't the actual Shiro Tagachi, he's an Ausra using holographic technology and he stole R.O.X. from Zinn and now belongs to 'Shiro' Zachariah Zuan. 21:21, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

what I think Zach is trying to say is... lololol lol, lol oh, and lol. Wrong page. Firoas. 21:23, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

No kidding. Though on R.O.X's page there is no mention of R.O.X. being Shiro's. Where did you get that info?--File:Image-Necro Shea mo signature.jpg Necro Shea Mo 00:22, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

That was sarcasm. As in "I am going to have to find a reason for this person to post about R.O.X. on Shiro's page. Aha!" Paddymew 00:25, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

And you cant hack Guildwars,the nearest thats ever happend is Duping(And more commonly,Exploits,but those are normaly fixed fast) --Neil2250 11:43, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Botssss! is for Raine, etc. 20:52, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Pretty sure you can. — Mini Me 21:05, 31 January 2010

Drops?

Sometimes (1 of 10) he drops different items. i found a Forbidden Staff(golden) with my speed-clear sin.

I was also wondering what he drops. Ive recently started running the mission and the only thing he has dropped so far is a white spiked axe and gold sometimes.71.177.254.146 01:35, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

He is no different from any other NPC in that he drops items, and he'll likely drop the items of the area. Konig/talk

Japanese trivia

What does grilled chicken intestine have anything to do with this character? Also the cultural references stating White symbolizes masculinity and evil in Japanese culture.... when? where? I speak fluent Japanese, I'm well versed in Japanese culture and I have never heard of this. White can mean purity, good or death. White Chrysanthemum for example is used in funerals in Japan, china and Korea as it symbolizes grieving for the dead. --Lania Elderfire 01:59, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

If I had to guess, the IP is using the reference of yang, which is often the white/masculine part of yin and yang. Frankly, that's where my limited knowledge stops. Also, the intestine part is just way out there. Doesn't Japanese use stresses to change meaning? It's like saying that Polish and polish would be the same... G R E E N E R 02:04, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Yang is the positive aspect, though. -~=Ϛρѧякγ (τѧιк) 03:17, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Trivia note is wiped anyway; I'd say good riddance since... what does any of that have anything to do with the character anyway? plus what does the color white have anything to do with the yin-yang symbol other than it contains it? Also why is anyone linking shiro a japanese word with ying-yang a Taoist concept which isn't the main religion in Japan? --Lania Elderfire 03:57, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Ask too many questions, Lania, and you'll only get an aneurysm. G R E E N E R 04:57, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

In various Asian (not particularly Japanese - btw, Yin/Yang is Chinese, not Japanese; and I put that note up, not an IP), white is used to depict the bad guy in various media. This even goes on today - the anime Bleach is, in fact, a prime example of this: When the captains were first introduced, they were given white clothing and were made into (for the most part) bad guys; when the main target became the arrancars, they whore completely white clothing (Bleach, in fact, takes that ideal and goes almost too far with it, truth be told). I wasn't utilizing Yin-Yang although it also holds the same idea that white=evil and black=good, in a similar way as German and Italians have a couple similar cultural influences if for nothing more than being influencing of each other throughout history (Taoism didn't make everything up on its own, you know). In fact, the fact that white is more "dark" than black is also prevalent in some African cultures were white represents death - but that's completely irrelevant to Shiro. White is pretty much only used to represent good in "western" cultures.

@Lania, the trivia is that is what his name (Shiro) means. It means "White" - and the color white is used to represent the evil in cultures. -- Konig/talk 09:25, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Edit: Anyways, I removed the cultural meaning of white and just kept the basic, known, translation. No need to get into a noose knot over this.

Shiro, when used in the context of a person's name in Japanese, roughly means "samurai male(士郎)" or "fourth son(四郎)". Shiro Tagachi is not an uncommon Japanese name and has nothing to do with white or castle. Tagachi = 田胜? --Zora 15:27, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

It's just best to remove anything about "translations" it doesn't mean anything in the context of the character. Though the romaji of 士郎 is shirou not shiro, basically due to this kanji 郎=ろう=rou. Shirou is fairly common in Japan but Shiro as a name is rather uncommon in japan but there are some surnames such as "志路"(Aspire path) or first name "史路"(History path). Still not much to do with the character in question.--Lania Elderfire 15:40, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Also Tagachi isn't a japanese name, the kanji 田口 can be pronounced Takuchi, tagichi, taguchi, dakuchi, or tanokuchi but not tagachi. You can kinda finagle a name by mashing several kanji together like this 多我血 which means "our abundant blood" but it's not a real name. --Lania Elderfire 15:48, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't think there is an official way for romanizing. I have seen both shiro(seems more common) and shirou. --Zora 15:57, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

w:Kunrei-shiki romanization is the official method now, but many still use the old hepburn system (which used to be the official method from around 1887-1994) even in japan, and contains some phonetic errors. In either method, shirou is the correct romanization for the kanji you gave as examples. --Lania Elderfire 16:11, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

The long vowels o and u are indicated by a macron—e.g., long o is written ō.. Since ō is outside ascii chararacter set, most just type it as o. Even on the shiro wiki page, the names are translated as shi-郎 --Zora 16:26, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Guys, I think you're going way out of context. If the name isn't elsewhere, then it isn't trivia. Shiro is, but the name version is Shirou (I've also seen Shirö, instead of Shirō). Shiro is what the name is, not Shirou, Shirō, or Shirö, and Shiro translates into white and castle (depending on the kanji used which are pronounced (and romanized) the same way (much like for and four, or there, their, and they're). -- Konig/talk 16:36, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Except "white and castle" has what to do with the character? The point I'm trying to make is that the devs probably tried to make a japanese sounding name but not a real japanese name. Shiro can be a real name with this 史路, but not Tagachi. Thus, trying to derive meaning from a madeup name isn't that interesting or relevant. Also if it's a madeup name then how do you know "what" kanji the devs thought of using even if they thought of it? In essence, it's irrelevant IMO. --Lania Elderfire 16:45, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. Anyway I checked the Japanese name in-game, it is シロウ->Shirou. --Zora 16:48, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Lania, again, it is because that is what the word "Shiro" means... I never said it was a real Japanese name, in fact only you and Zora were talking about Japanese names. That is not the point of the trivia note, the point of the trivia note is to tell people what Shiro - not Shirou or anything else - means. Shiro alone. And that means "white" or "castle" (off-topic: Has anyone else been constantly thinking about White Castle during this conversation? That would be an interesting translation into Japanese: Shiro Shiro). Whether the name was made up or not does not matter, at all. -- Konig/talk 17:27, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

If it's Shirou in katakana form then it's not meant to have a kanji for it. No kanji, no inherent meaning in the name. Plus you haven't addressed how the color white and castle is relevant to this character. I wasn't thinking about white castle but I'm thinking it now... along with harold and kumar lol. --Lania Elderfire 18:15, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Shiro is also the pronunciation for words meaning intestine, substitution, material, price, margin and unit of land. —Zora 18:33, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, Lania, I have. It's the meaning of the NPC's name - how is a name's meaning not relevant to the bloody NPC? And don't remove things that are being discussed without a consensus. -- Konig/talk 21:04, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Then why stop with white and castle? might as well add grilled chicken intestine (yakitori intestine), material, price, and other meanings to the name that makes no sense what so ever in the context of the character. I don't think you understand how japanese works. When something is written in just katakana, it is just a phonetic pronunciation and doesn't have any link to kanji. That's why non japanese words are written in katakana not hiragana and kanji in japan. Shirou is written in katakana in game as シロウ (that is katakana by the way) when the language is changed to Japanese。　Which means in terms of the language it has no meaning and only has phonetic pronunciation. If they had used 士郎 instead of シロウ then you can say the name has meaning. Also since it's シロウ in-game, the devs probably meant phonetically Shirō or shirou instead of shiro. In which case it wouldn't be 白 or　城 or　代 since it's not the same pronunciation。 --Lania Elderfire 21:21, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

You're right - I don't know much about Japanese. But how, per say, should I know that you're right? I'm not trying to be stubborn here, but "white" is the most common meaning of the term "shiro" (not Shirou) and it is what is stated via the link used. This is the English wiki, not the Japanese wiki. Translation could call for different words being used, and it is shiro that used here - they could of easily used Shirou if they wanted to - thus Shirou is the irrelevant case for this wiki. -- Konig/talk 21:31, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Edit: Oh, and "white" did have meaning to the character until you complained and people kept removing the note that in Asian cultures white is used to refer to evil and "bad guys" - Shiro means white, Shiro Tagachi is a bad guy in the game. There you have a double connection. Oh, and I have never heard of Shiro being used for castle, intestine, material, price, etc. and while I don't write Japanese, I listen to it quite a bit. -- Konig/talk 21:34, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Okay for white then. In the strictest cultural sense white has no major cultural or religious significance in Japan. White as a generic color can mean death or residing in the afterlife w/o any reference to good or bad. White chrysanthemum symbolizes mourning which is why it is used in japanese, chinese and korean funerals. White worn as in weddings signify purity, blank slate. White salt used in the sumo wrestling ring are sprinkled on the ring to purify the ring of any evil spirits before a match. In all honesty, I have never heard of white=evil in japan. I think your "Bleach" reference is irrelevant. Bleach does have some references to Shintoism but not much. The Espada probably wear all white, if there was a symbolism there, because they reside in the netherworld. I read, speak, and write Japanese by the way... though my handwriting is horrible since I use the computer exclusively for writing Japanese anymore.--Lania Elderfire 21:55, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) All names mean something in some language. The connection here is insignificant and doesn't merit any mention. elix Omni 21:58, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Unless it means something like "emperor-killer" or "envoy", I don't think it's significant enough for inclusion. If an a.net employee says he's named after something, though, include it. Manifold 22:43, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

My vote is

1. Ask an employee and if they intended there to be meaning in his name, list it on the article without giving it too much attention. If not, obliterate all trivia related to it.
2. If no employee is available / responds to the request, do not add it. As Lania has explained, Shiro means nothing except by artificial construction, and the Japanese version Shirou is a common name with no particular ties to the character.
3. Adding bold and italics will never give Konig's words extra weight | 72 (UTC) 23:45, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) Actually, Lania just brought up a case I forgot: "White as a generic color can mean death or residing in the afterlife" - Envoys, which Shiro is, are similar to the Grim Reaper (more or less) and resides in the afterlife. Though the Bleach was just an example of how cultures use white for evil (and Bleach uses a lot of religious references - from Shinto, to some spanish faith, to german, and christian - at least - but the references has become irrelevant), but it is not the only case, was just the first one I came up with. But whatever, clearly I'm the only one for keeping a note which has been around for over a year with minimal issues. -- Konig/talk 23:54, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

If I had seen it earlier, I would have said something, but I generally don't scour the wiki for problems. I noticed it because the IP that was talking to me on my talk page reverted something on this article and I was curious. Then I saw shiro means intestine, white = evil in japanese culture and I was like whaaaat? I thought about the envoy thing too but then again it's still a stretch, and it really depends on if Anet really meant if his name was meant to mean white.--Lania Elderfire 02:46, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

According to the Euro English to Japanese Dictionary posted by IP that Lania is offended by, Shiro means castle, or white, or intestine (yakitori), or price, materials, and substitution. Look up Shiro + Japanese + Means , etc. and find out for yourselves. I have studied Japan as well and I am from England, but I can say that Lania is wrong to some extent and I feel that if you all research for yourselves of the truth that you would see what was posted and left for a long while is no offense, but true trivia to the game. I feel that Lania has only been removing false information or trying to get it excluded, instead of admitting to what kind of cultures Factions is based towards and leaving the trivia as more are for it being there, apparently. 67.159.5.76 05:00, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

What is not contested is the meaning of romaji->japanese meaning of shiro. I am not offended by the meanings, but rather the meaning have nothing to do with the character. Please tell me what any of 白 or　城 or　代 (white, castle, price etc) or yakitori intestine have anything to do with the character of shiro tagachi? Anyone can type on an online dictionary and convert romaji into Japanese and derive a meaning from it [3]. Much like my name can be converted to kanji for fun to yeild 螺煮蛙 in Japanese. It means edible cooked frog, which has nothing to do with me other than I do want to try frog legs for dinner some day hee hee. Though I'm not sure why I'm wasting my time on a possible open proxy [4] (I think it may be a IP that was previously used by an open proxy but I'm not sure and I don't care to investigate it further.). --Lania Elderfire 06:19, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Zora already said it; the in-game says シロウ. That's katakana, so it's very unlikely that the name has any japanese meaning. If it would refer to some japanese word, they would have used hiragana (or even kanjis). poke | talk 08:24, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if its been mentioned yet, but in many eastern cultures, yes, really bad demons are often colored white for one reason or another. I Know old Islamic stories sometimes have white demons. I'm pretty sure Shinto also has some white demons in its legends, but I know Buddhism does and its stories are widespread in Japan. Still, I don't think that is the intended reference as Shiro's theme color is red, not white. I believe "fortress" is usually the intended meaning when "Shiro" is a person's name in the hope the boy will be perceived as strong. --Shai Halud 20:57, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, that's all been covered and settled in the wall of texts above. --Lania 16:54, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Macbeth

the predictions the Fortune Teller makes is pretty much just like Macbeth, at 1st refusal until the 1st perdiction comes, then self doubt then anger and eventually he lives up to the final prediction by his own hand Zachariah Zuan. 11:39, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

That's just a self-fulfilling prophecy. With the addition of denial and self doubt. It isn't anything special and I doubt they had any inspiration by Macbeth - otherwise I'm sure there would be "impossible requirements" before Shiro could die - such as moving forests and being killed by a man who was not born. -- Konig/talk 19:15, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

i'm refering predictions Up to Duncans death. Zachariah Zuan. 20:55, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Konig understood | 72 | 21:46, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

still wonder if that should be added? Zachariah Zuan. 02:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I say no as per it being a typical self-fulfilling prophecy. If we add the note here, we should add it to the Mursaat and Flameseeker pages - as that too is a self-fulfilling prophecy. And is far more vague than what the fortune teller told Shiro. -- Konig/talk 04:03, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

If it's like Konig said, then: self-fulfilling prophecy is a common tactic in stories, so I wouldn't. But if there is a more meaningful similarity, like the actual events are the same, I probably would. Personally I dunno anything about Macbeth, so we'll have to wait for someone who has... | 72 | 04:06, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Yo. No. elix Omni 04:34, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I recall Macbeth very well. In a crappy summary: Macbeth was in a war, told he would be king by 3 witches and that the only way he'd die is when the forest walks and he will be slain by a man who wasn't born - once he kills the current king and manages to take the throne, rebels cut down the branches of the nearby forest and use them as cover; making the "forest walking", as pointed out by one of Macbeth's soldiers when reporting. Then he is killed by a man who lost his wife and children/child to Macbeth as said man was never born since he was cut from his mother's womb. Where does Shiro's similarity go in there? The only similarity is what Zuan said: a prediction, self doubt, then anger, and eventually fulfilling the prophecy. Oh, and Shiro doesn't even fulfill any prophecy because the emperor didn't kill Shiro - 3 heroes did. At this point, the only similarity is prophecy and anger - self doubt isn't right as he doubts the fortune teller and not himself. So no, no similarity. The mursaat with the Flameseeker Prophecies is closer to macbeth, and those are still miles apart. -- Konig/talk 10:57, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

^ | 72 | 14:47, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Macbeth is made Thane, as Shiro is made a Bodyguard thats another one, so, now fufilled Macbeth/Shiro begin to believe the predictions and the 3rd is unbeliever able becoming the emperor/king themselves thus having to slay the previous, as Shiro was told the Emperor would want to kill him so he'd have to defend himself. Zachariah Zuan. 12:08, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

i disagree on that for trivia, too loosely connected.--Neil2250 , Portal Jumper 12:21, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

It has to be an obvious connection. There is way too much of a stretch to fit this to try to create such a connection. It has about as much connection to say that Obama is a Muslim terrorist because his father grew up in Kenya and Obama attended a Muslim school in Indonesia. There are just way too many leaps that makes no logical sense. Just because 2/15+ story elements fit doesn't mean anything.--Lania Elderfire 14:52, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

@Zuan: Shiro was never told to be the emperor, so I don't see why you think the second point counts as a similarity. Killing one's leader is not cause for a similarity. -- Konig/talk 21:44, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

what? "Shiro was told the Emperor would want to kill him" wrong way round Konig. anyway I see that, shame I was so certain on that, that cutscene just yelled Macbeth at me, oh well Zachariah Zuan. 07:45, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps your game is glitched. /wisecrack | 72 | 14:36, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

To me that cut scene screamed... another lame story element that have been repeated thousands of times in books, movies, graphics novels... I think the more cliche a scene is, the more someone can draw similarities to something else. --Lania Elderfire 19:14, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Which is why I hate making cliche's in my work but I always tend to put them in with my own little twist... Rather annoying, but yet people don't seem to have minded thus far. -- Konig/talk 23:46, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Way late to this thread, but setting aside the Fortune Teller angle I think FFVII's Sephiroth (one of the top-rated video-game villains of all time) is much more likely to have been the inspiration for Shiro's character than Macbeth. The parallels aren't exact, of course (copyright infringement!) but the two character concepts and basic storylines are much closer to each other than either is to Macbeth. -- Tekn0mancer (Talk) 17:38, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

O.o

I took 60 damage from Meditation of the Reaper, but he stayed in that meditating form... we killed him, he didn't use any skills :D and he got knocked down while meditating, but flew back up after. –alistic 00:06, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Rit

If Shiro banishes a ritualist, the rit Shiro'ken can easily rez every enemy in the area by a spirit(that means himself). Always when i have a rit in my team we end getting killed by a Shiro'ken army. Once even Shiro got ressed but cutscene started.

Shiro Userbox

I got bored, so I made a userbox for users who pwn shiro in NM or HM.

No Impossible Odds. Skill: This User Farm Shiro The Betrayer.

{{User:Fantil_Swift/No_Unbeatable_Odds}}

antil Swift 21:59, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

why

is the main page image not of, like, shiro tagachi? -Auron 12:54, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Maybe he applied for trademark rights to his image, and, copyrights in hand, banished himself to the Mists in his spirit-y form, making it impossible for us to seize them or for them to expire, since he will never die | 72 | 14:26, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

I thought that the guild image was more interesting than the Shiro image. -- Konig/talk 20:18, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree w/ Konig - the symbol is much more interesting, and to an extent, is a bit less of an instant spoiler; not that having Shiro's story up on the Featured article isn't a total spoiler already, and also assuming that there remain players who don't know... oh, whatever. I like the way the logo fits in the box, better than the image would have. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Cailini Alainn 20:24, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

the article isn't about shiro's guild, it's about shiro himself. in fact, the blurb on the main page says nothing about the guild at all. you could put up a picture of a river skale tad and it would be every bit as relevant to the article.

someone seriously dropped the ball there. -Auron 04:37, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Shiro is the only known member of Shiro's guild. It is Shiro's mark - it is never related to his guild in the main plot, but Shiro himself. It's like saying that the crest on the White Mantle's banner is irrelevant to the White Mantle. (also, there was no need to put a message on my talk page). -- Konig/talk 05:16, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

When we could choose between something related to Shiro himself and, well, Shiro himself, why is the first option better? elix Omni 05:22, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Agree, shiro himself would be much better. --Lania 05:24, 07 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, shiro himself without being translucent (i.e., Envoy self) could be a spoiler. But I suppose it is purely preference. I preferred the symbol and had put it in the Main Page/featured article/next page two weeks before the feature. If you disliked it, you had ample time to see and change it. Before it is even used: No, I don't expect you guys specifically to watch that page, but anyone could of gone and changed it within the two week span. No one did. -- Konig/talk 05:44, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

none of that is relevant to the image being a poor choice. how do we go about fixing it? -Auron 05:46, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

We can't, the spirit world is now merging with reality. The Envoys will have their revenge. We are doomed. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 06:41, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

there was plenty of time to comment on it before it was put up. i don't know that i would have put the symbol in either, but then again, i didn't take the time to nominate, edit, or otherwise work on the recent articles in the featured articles list. you had your chance to contribute and didn't. if this pic isn't to your liking and is important to u, then just make sure u let ppl know before the next featured article goes up. if u contributed nothing and don't like the end result... well, that's unfortunate, but is no one's fault but your own. --VVong|BA 20:41, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Or we could change it now because it's not too late. elix Omni 20:42, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm with Konig. The symbol adds a bit more flavour to the topic, rather than a simple, known NPC image. It piqued my curiosity when I saw it on the screen. G R E E N E R 20:46, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

It piqued my curiosity too, but then I saw it was about Shiro and not about his guild, and I was like "meh". - Mini Me 20:48, 7 September, 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) In the end though, I doubt it would make much difference either way. Since almost no one checks the upcoming featured article page, the personal preference of a couple people prevailed... In "terms" of the article shiro's actual image would be better, but at the same time, I don't really seem to care either way. --Lania 21:08, 07 September 2010 (UTC)

Demon creature type

Someone care to explain this? I thought Shiro, like Khilbron was a special creature type. -- Konig/talk 22:02, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Very Fast Kill for Factions HM

Kills shiro in less than 30-45 seconds in hard mode... this is for Factions: Any/W with Wild Blow to cancel out Battle Scars, 1 UA monk, 1 Soul Twisting w/ Shelter, Preservation, and Union, Spiteful Spirit Necro, Signet of Spirits rit, Signet of Ghostly Might rit w/ Painful Bond, 1 Spoil Victor necro, and 1 Ineptitude mesmer w/ Calculated Risk. You will need 1 merc slot though. I got the 3 slot. Hope this helps. --00.0.00.000 01:39, 7 April 2011 (UTC) --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.0.67.190 (talk).

It's possible to kill Shiro within a minute with just 2 heroes (not counting the time it takes to cross that bridge), with a full team it should be far faster. Doesn't even need to be a /w with wild blow - could be a sin with wild strike, a dervish with their stance remover which was added in the last update (forgot which skill since it isn't a "wild"), or a paragon's wild throw. -- Konig/talk 01:52, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

How do you have a soul twisting with preservation?

Human

During Imperial Sanctum, a person I was running had EoE up and when Shiro died, I saw that I took damage from Edge of Extinction. I don't have a screenie, but I did take damage from EoE. ‎ Scar 13:35, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Not surprising to me. We really need to alter the infobox for NPCs who's creature type changes. Konig/talk 15:51, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. The page for the infobox needs to be cleaned up too.-- Necro Shea Mo 03:24, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Through random digging, I came across A statement by Andrew McLeod stating Shiro is a Demon up until we fight him, where he's, as stated by Scar, a human. I wonder which case he is come Gate of Madness... Either way, I'm updating the article stating the mechanical type of when we fight him (as that's when it's most important to players). Konig/talk 23:19, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

I'll test GoM once I've got my old PC back --The Holy Dragons 31.151.75.38 12:52, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Closest match to his armor?

Does anybody know the closest match to his armor is? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.176.158.46 (talk).

Everlasting Shiro Tonic probably. -Auron 02:44, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

i think he

i think he was based off sefiroth from final faty 7

You mean by this character: Sephiroth? Yeah, NO. Tikka LeFem talk (talk) 04:54, 8 January 2022 (UTC)