Talk:Keiran Thackeray

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Fork

Make this a fork between all versions. - Lucian Shadowborn 03:37, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Keiran Thackeray

→ from Talk:Lieutenant Thackeray

i for one am for the article's name change but am also fine with it staying as is seeing as if you type Keiran Thackeray into the seach it comes up with this page.- Zesbeer 06:01, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

I say we go with where it's most commonly seen. Which, at this moment, would be Lieutenant Thackeray. Or, we can always go full: Lieutenant Keiran Thackeray. -- Konig/talk 06:30, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

that would be a good. changing the tag to reflect that idea.- Zesbeer 07:49, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Let's stick with one of the two names commonly used in-game, either "Keiran Thackeray" or "Lieutenant Thackeray;" I'm strongly against "Lieutenant Keiran Thackeray" except as a redirect (although I doubt it will come in search that often).  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 07:53, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

I think we should change it to Keiran Thackeray. It's pretty clear Stumme is making an attempt to move away from the "known by his last name" thing he had going on, I think we should support that. It also helps to separate his identity from Logan Thackeray (people just end up calling him Thackeray and drop the Lieutenant). He's being called Keiran more and more often in the recent updates, it's also unusual for a prominent NPC to be known by their title (Gwen and Kormir both have titles but we call them by their names). Lieutenant Keiran Thackeray is too long. 58.111.81.184 07:57, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Very good points. Thackeray is moving to a more fleshed out character beyond his military rank and wintersday presence at the Eye. G R E E N E R 08:18, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Still say to stick with most commonly seen, but if that is Stumme's intent, then we'll be seeing "Keiran Thackeray" more often than "Lieutenant Thackeray" soon, I'm sure. Soon being when the next piece of Hearts of the North is released. -- Konig/talk 09:00, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

You're on the TK so I'm guessing he is referred to once again as Lieutenant otherwise we would be wasting time discussing something your already know the outcome of. 58.111.81.184 15:57, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't be so sure of that. I don't know everything intended to be released. -- Konig/talk 23:56, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

also i say we go for Keiran Thackeray seeing how the new content kind of makes it clear that will be his most used name...- Zesbeer 00:18, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

I would suggest two separate pages with disambiguation links, might be hard to resolve the conflicting names, classes and roles within a single article and still make sense.--Nela - (talk) 00:33, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

i think it is do able to add the new stuff to this page. i think we should try as hard as we can to make it work on this page, i for one am tired of going to separate pages just because they are a little different.- Zesbeer 00:29, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

paragon hero

→ from Talk:Lieutenant Thackeray

Why make him a paragon, he is obviously a ranger... (forgot to sign) --'Mai Yi' talk 23:24, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

He does however use paragon skills during Heart of the North--Lordkrall 23:47, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

So a character who's entire schtick was being an elite sniper, who was far more Rangerish than the Ranger heroes we already had, is now a Paragon, with absolutely no explanation. Seriously? This is really the only way you could think of to push Thackeray on us, Anet? Arshay Duskbrow 23:50, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Seriously: Epic Fail. They said: "something you wouldn't expect"...... ¬¬. Not only a high expected hero but he is also a paragon, another Epic Fail, yes, he uses paragon skills, so? He has been always a ranger and when you unlock him he is holding a BOW, not a spear..... --disappointed user83.60.57.253 23:54, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

They should have balanced out his "BMP" skills, but then allow us not to change them. Would have been much better, imo. :/ 90.200.54.99 23:59, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

It's probably supposed to be something like how he became a leader. Also, I figure they're trying to make it so that, when the full-hero-party update is released, we can't have a full group of only 1 profession. Imagine having 5 touch rangers (including the player) in one party, it would make the entire game an easy mode moreso than simply 3 TRs, 3MMs, 1SoS, and 1 player will be. Relax, it's not the end of the world, just a small bump that jostled the crib. 68.144.77.185 00:06, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

The explanation occurs during the final HotN quest, when he flat-out says that he now knows how to be a leader. You may be disappointed in ANet's choice of profession for him, but considering that it would make him ranger hero #4 (Jin, Pyre, and Margrid) they had to do something.

...and now, I'm off to make a 4-paragon team build... by reworking my 3-para team. *drools* Ash Dragonshadow 00:09, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Very gd idea of ANets part. No one really expected Thackery to be a Para, theres already 3 Rangers, and tbh i hate using rangers (mes make better rupts) and 3 Paras will be awesome. Lahmia The Vampire 00:37 17 December 2010 (GMT)

It's not giving us a third paragon that I'm criticizing- that's probably the most needed profession without a third member other than ritualist. It's that he changed his primary profession, something that would be impossible for a player. (Then again, we have Anton, an ascalon assassin, so it's not like NPCs haven't broken the rules in the past.) It would have been nice if they alluded to such a major change in the story a bit more. Ah well. 71.89.5.181 00:49, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Just to refresh your memories, here[[1]]is where Kieran basically annouces that he is now a paragon. Just read the dialog at the end of the mission.Ash Dragonshadow 01:35, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Keiran Thackeray: "Now I understand what it means to be a leader. I know that I can change, and I can be something more . Thanks to you." That would mean he becomes ranger/paragon not paragon/-. Changing primary profession means changing weapon skills, attributes, armor, etc... as you can read here. And it is IMPOSSIBLE in Guild Wars 1. So, if he can change his profession, should we suppose there are seven gods?--83.60.57.253 02:13, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Weird how he utilizes Motivation skills when using Command in the Hearts of the North. Sudden change of heart is weird, but whatev's - free elite skill unlock is free!

Gives me something to do with oppressor spear when I get one. Now maybe they'll make a paragon mini, only profession currently without a mini. I ask them every year to make one for next birthday. Ramei Arashi 06:27, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

@IP: It's ANet's game... if they want to break their own rules, it's their call entirely. Again, though: it makes much more sense to change his profession than add a 4th ranger hero. If they'd turned him into a ritualist, mesmer or assassin (the other three professions that only have 2 heroes), though, it would make much less sense in the story context than what they did.Ash Dragonshadow 21:18, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

"And it is IMPOSSIBLE in Guild Wars 1." Only in mechanics. For balance reasons. But in lore, this is not the case. As seen by Magi Malaquire, Alari Doubleblade, Keiran, Carlotta, and a few others. -- Konig/talk 21:28, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Not impossible, just messy and lacking an interface. You can do it, but it has to be done by messing with the database and it either 1) doesn't turn out pretty or B) is functionally identical to a "real" character with the given profession (and you'd need some mad SQL skillz to get it right, not to mention I think the server has to be stopped to do it). There's nothing to indicate a character couldn't do it, though. Saul goes from sloppy gambling drunk to high priest of the order of golden floaties, that has to count as a primary shift. –Jette 21:36, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

someone mentioned anton as an ascalon assassin and anet breaking the rules, i cant find info anywhere saying he was from ascalon, only that he was a prisoner of the charr, and the char could have taken him from the northern shiverpeaks for exceution, if there is evendence to the contrary pls point it out to me. Spark-TBa 23:57, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

The first two lines from the manuscript quote on Anton's page. He was a prisoner in Surmia until the Charr invaded and allowed him to escape.-- Pyron Sy 00:17, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

He also had a family in Ascalon who were murdered by the charr, one of which calls him an Ascalonian - his Ascalonian past is the point of the quests to get him. -- Konig/talk 02:31, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Practical as well as logical, considering the events in Kryta. Not only does he decide to become a leader. He gains paragon skills as the events progress. And do you really think Gwen will let him walk around in the wilderness anymore? It's not really a skirt he's wearing, it's an apron. He'll be cooking for her (he never told her you were the one who arranged for all the food and stuff). As for changing professions being strange: it's a gruesome process involving terrible magic and pain beyond belief that no player would nor should willingly endure, but Gwen can be very persuasive. As for not having spear and shield yet... when he needs stuff, you're the one who will be fetching it, remember? --Tenshi Samshel 16:39, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Armor

→ from Talk:Lieutenant Thackeray

Seems like he has no model yet for Deldrimor/Brootherhood armor, wonder if Anet will add this feature so that he can be part of the HoM with all the other heros. 194.254.54.42 00:12, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

He cannot be placed in the HoM yet, and heroes who can have armor can only be placed in HoM (with the exception of M.O.X., or course). Therefore, I think Anet is probably working on some set of Brotherhood or Deldrimor armor (or, at least, I hope they do).

As a hero

→ from Talk:Lieutenant Thackeray

From /flute and other emotes, I can have seen him using Warrior emotes, will a note need to be added? And will this fuel the need for a split with (NPC) version and a (Hero) version? 90.200.54.99 00:41, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Looks like we have an hybrid hero.--83.60.57.253 01:24, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Default Skills

→ from Talk:Lieutenant Thackeray

I find it interesting that he is the only hero in the entire game that has an elite skill upon acquisition. Pretty useful for Elite Paragon Tome users.

Hero

→ from Talk:Lieutenant Thackeray

I have started making a page for Keiran Thackeray as a hero to clean up the Lt page of him. should keep the two seperated so that players know who to look for regarding his hero things and quest things Ocren 02:14, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Lol. I love how he comes with a bow... --Musha 02:28, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

same here! but I am basicly done the page, add what I forgot and remove what is need. Ocren 02:34, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Double spawn

→ from Talk:Lieutenant Thackeray

I went outside of Eye of the North and saw him twice. I was doing the quest Charr-broiled Pans and took the quest A Good Deed. Vezz 06:26, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

WHAT DOES IT MEAN? 76.66.74.147 05:55, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Double Keiran all the way across the sky! ThrainFile:User Thrain Sig.pngcontribs 05:56, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Profession Change

→ from Talk:Keiran Thackeray (Hero)

why the heck is he a paragon? --Bestat Trophy greet text here 02:49, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Merge

→ from Talk:Keiran Thackeray (Hero)

I disagree with the merge and firmly believe this should be seperated. - Lucian Shadowborn 02:52, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

I FULLY DISAGREE! i spent the better part of 3 hours plus doing this and the wedding dialouge. that and putting the two pages together would make it VERY confusingOcren 02:55, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

I think it will be the least confusing to keep Lieutenant Thackeray (npc) and Keiran Thackeray (hero) on separate pages. There is precedent for breaking it up, as there are separate pages for pre-searing Gwen and EotN hero Gwen. Ebirah 03:04, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

while theyr repreesent a development in the same character in lore, as far as the ame is concerned, 'Keiran' and 'Lituenant' are two different creatures, that doesn't even have the same profession. Backsword 03:19, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

i strongly disagree with you guys if you look at gwens article its going to soon be made into one article. and i think all the information on this page can easily be put on the other page and it wont be confusing unless you call headers confusing. also maybe you shouldn't make a page before the discussion on the other keiran page is done.- Zesbeer 05:31, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

well, the thing is, Gwen kid is only in pre, while thackery is now a hero and a npc. I know that it would confuse the newer players looking at a wiki with thackery and thackery talking about all these quest things, then all of a sudden you are talking about how he is a hero. and as made a mention earlier, the pre gwen and hero gwen are 2 different npc. thackeray on the other hand has a name change from Lt Thackeray to Keiran thackeray. but if merged make sure newer players he is now two peoplesOcren 06:20, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

I disagree with the merge. He is almost two different people with all the differences (the other guy is a quest npc, a different class and involved in many different story arcs before he joins your party, the pages will get incredibly cluttered if we merge). His other page is already one of the most complicated character pages on the wiki - we can put a link to this page so people can be guided through. You're also going to search two different names (formerly he was never called Keiran in game, but now it's his main name). 110.32.15.110 11:13, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

I agree with the merge. It would be like having Master of Whispers and General Morgahn detailed in an NPC and a Hero page as both of them are seen as NPCs a lot before becoming heroes. I don't think that a mere profession change is warranting a split either. Also, as to "There is precedent for breaking it up, as there are separate pages for pre-searing Gwen and EotN hero Gwen." That's a different issue, as it's a completely different model along with a different purpose and one is a major spoiler to the first. And even that's being discussed to merge (and I agree with that merge as well).

How I see it, there's two arguments for the split: profession and purpose being changed. And that's been done to multiple NPCs and no split among them. For the most part, the only NPCs that are split and have gotten attention for such are spoiler related NPCs (undead rurik, kormir/goddess of truth, etham - the last being reasonable for a merge). This is not really one. -- Konig/talk 11:40, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

I disagree with a Merge, Lt Thackery (a Ranger) is not the same person as the Keiran Thackery (Paragon Hero).. 195.183.80.137 13:16, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

I disagree with a merge, basically for the same reasons already stated. Too much already on the pages and he's barely the same person. (Like most married men! :P) Lillium 13:26, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

By that argument, Alari Doubleblade in Prophecies (a ranger quest NPC) is not the same as Alari Doubleblade in the War in Kryta (an assassin random spawn ally). Should we split her and the several others which had profession changes, name changes, or other? I say no. @Lillium: "Too much already on the pages" that's the worst reason for not merging I've ever seen. -- Konig/talk 13:29, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

@Konig: I am not the first person to say that (though maybe I put it very inelegantly), I didn't even bring up any new points. I was simply stating that I agree with the ones already put up against it. You don't need to pick on every person that comes by to disagree. Lillium 13:47, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

I'd say to separate them based on profession, plot, model and NPC name. Lieutenant Thackeray for the one in Eye of the North quests and WiK, and Keiran Thackeray for the one in Hearts of the North and the hero, after he changes his model to the tattered one and slowly turns into paragon until becoming one. Otherwise I'll just kept both as one, since the main reason for split is spoilers. MithTalk 14:23, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Thing with that would be that Hearts of the North is really tied with the War in Kryta. There isn't really a "Eye of the North quests" anymore as Casey now gives the Wintersday quests and Wintersday Cheer is unavailable if A Good Deed is done. Gotta figure out what's the situation with Witnersday Cheer this year to be certain, but just about all of Keiran is tied directly to Beyond now. -- Konig/talk 14:29, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Keiran is a quest NPC from a historical festival quest, he is an NPC for another non festival quest, he's a random spawn ally for WiK, he's involved in several dialgoues, he's a character from BMP style content, he's the focus point for a scavenger hunt and he's a hero. No other NPC in the game is as complicated as he is (except for maybe Gwen), his other page is already bloated. The ability to access information and present information on him is vastly increased by splitting the articles. 110.32.15.110 16:17, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Fun fact I got from Joe Kimmes via the Test Krewe: Gron Fierceclaw is in fact the "most complicated" NPC in the game. :P Besides, complication isn't a very well good reason for a split. Mhenlo, for instance, is a very long and bloated page. How did we shorten it? We added collapsable sections to the locations. Condition was also a very bloated page, which we also added collapsable sections. As was Wynn. If the real reason for splitting the page is due to it being large, we can find ways to shrink things. -- Konig/talk 16:22, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) "I agree with the merge. It would be like having Master of Whispers and General Morgahn detailed in an NPC and a Hero page as both of them are seen as NPCs a lot before becoming heroes. I don't think that a mere profession change is warranting a split either. Also, as to "There is precedent for breaking it up, as there are separate pages for pre-searing Gwen and EotN hero Gwen." That's a different issue, as it's a completely different model along with a different purpose and one is a major spoiler to the first. And even that's being discussed to merge (and I agree with that merge as well). How I see it, there's two arguments for the split: profession and purpose being changed. And that's been done to multiple NPCs and no split among them. For the most part, the only NPCs that are split and have gotten attention for such are spoiler related NPCs (undead rurik, kormir/goddess of truth, etham - the last being reasonable for a merge). This is not really one." this is the best argument i have seen thus far. the oposting view point is very week imho and have yet to see a strong reason as to why we should keep the split.- Zesbeer 16:25, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) (damn, did we just edit conflict each other zesbeer? :x) It seems that Santax made a draft for merging the two here - it doesn't look very complicated or overly large to me. I like the draft, and I support that being how we make the article - at Keiran Thackeray. -- Konig/talk 16:27, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Page would be ridiculously long if we were to take it as the editcopy. Would vote to separate.--File:User Chieftain Alex Chieftain Signature.pngChieftain Alex 16:29, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

wrong. the page Santax made isnt that large at all. and combines all the information.@konig looks like it ^_^- Zesbeer 16:31, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Since when does stuff happen instantaneously on this wiki? I mean, this has been under discussion for LESS THAN A WEEK. There are sooooo many people who never got a chance to even see the options before this was implemented. Just stop trying to push consensus off on people before they have a chance to comment. I personally think that this merges page is obnoxiously long, and would really have preferred the split versions. -- Wyn talk 05:13, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the length: This page is actually shorter than pages like Devona, Mhenlo and a few others - and for those two linked, that's with their locations being collapsed. I don't see the length being an issue at all. -- Konig/talk 05:17, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

The primary issue here is your rush. There are many people who don't log on for a week or more at a time, to claim consensus after less than a week is just ridiculous. I still personally dislike the current page, and would much prefer the split versions. What's your hurry? -- Wyn talk 05:20, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Technically, 'twas Santax's rush. I just went with the flow. Also, the argument of a week is weak (no pun intended), as most maintenance tags either require comments in less than a week - for instance, the delete tag - or are settled in such a time unless there's discussion. Technically speaking, the discussion began as a direct merge with the NPC ranger verion but went to a merge with a draft version, the later being unopposed since the 17th, except for Chieftain Alex whose comment - like the part of yours I responded to the first time - was not entirely correct. Four days without opposition to the newer merge. (Just to note: I am not saying it wasn't rushed, it's just that you're making it sound like it was rushed a lot more). -- Konig/talk 05:26, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

BUG ?

→ from Talk:Keiran Thackeray (Hero)

I saw that I could get 2 Thackeray within the same map Vezz 03:08, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Looks like the game doesn't have a problem with it since the wording of the names are different. Ebirah 03:15, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

I saw that first :P but yes, bug --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Ocren (talk).

It's still weird, I bet this will be fixed in a weeks' time. - Lucian Shadowborn 03:26, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

The same thing also happens when you do a WiK quest and he joins you as your random ally. 110.32.15.110 07:26, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

HoM

→ from Talk:Keiran Thackeray (Hero)

Do we actually have official word on Keiran's eventual Hall of Monuments status, or is the statement about him "not counting" just based on how things are right now? As worded, it would seem to imply the former, but without citation (and with him being a hero for only a few hours) I'm wary of giving that interpretation much credence at this point in time. 74.248.147.2

Agreed, it would be better to say that he cannot be added to the HoM *yet*. Same goes for alternate hero armors, support might be added later. Ebirah 03:24, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I moved to Notes and elaborated. Thanks fo catching that! - Lucian Shadowborn 03:25, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Most likely he won't be added to the hall since that would involve recoding the reward calculator. It may happen, but don't get your hopes up.-- Pyron Sy 03:45, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

They did add support for Oppressor weapons to the HoM, so I think there's a decent chance of adding support for Thackeray with default armor. Code updates should be simple. Giving him alternate armor art would be far more consuming, I won't be surprised if that never happens. Ebirah 04:26, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Recoding the rewards calculator would involve about 30 minutes of work, tops. It is by far not impossible. They would just add Kieran to the list of heroes needed to be displayed in the monument. Also, no new points would be needed as there are not enough heroes still to warrant it.--Neithan Diniem 19:56, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

"Recoding the rewards calculator would involve about 30 minutes of work, tops." Got proof of that? And even if that were the case, it's not support the live team can get easily. Joe Kimmes told the TK this is the main problem for adding Keiran into the HoM (and statue art support) while we were testing the new content. -- Konig/talk 20:58, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Woah there, they might add support for him but that is not definite. - Lucian Shadowborn 23:25, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

People have said "are we sure," "most likely wont," "decent chance," "by far not impossible," and "it's not [...] the live team can get easily." No one said anything was definite. -- Konig/talk 00:11, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Meh, we won't know until Anet decides to make a comment, until then it's 50/50. Happy? - Lucian Shadowborn 00:30, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

If "re-coding" the calculator would take too much work when adding more content in, then someone didn't think things through when they were coding it in the first place. Adding extra content to an application should never involve any serious work besides making the actual content. I don't think Anet has such poor programmers that that would be their biggest problem, I think the majority of the work would be coding the content into HoM. » Keneth O'Connor, 08:00, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

No where did I say that the coding would be hard, but to pull people away from what they're doing in order to get them to code - i.e., getting coding support - is different. I dunno how easy or hard it is, but that was something brought up in the TK. -- Konig/talk 14:16, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Locations

→ from Talk:Keiran Thackeray (Hero)

I think his location list should be pared down to just the HoM. His other locations (as Lt. Thackeray, the npc) will be listed on that page. Does this idea make sense to anyone else? Ebirah 03:15, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

I reduced it to reunion, which is where he appears with this name. Backsword 03:25, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

I second. and I'll say I hate making wiki pages lol Ocren 03:27, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Attributes

→ from Talk:Keiran Thackeray (Hero)

Am i the only one who thinks this is a bug, and that he was supposed to have 11 spear mastery raht than command? ANd perhaps leadership and motivation got mixed up oo. Backsword 04:13, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

He doesn't have a spear. --ஸ Kyoshi 04:30, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

yes. But he has a spear attack skill. Backsword 04:31, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Mm, true. If you ask me, the whole thing seems a bit off. --ஸ Kyoshi 04:33, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Possibly because Find Their Weakness, a skill from the missions is usually Command based?Cheapy 05:02, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

His Voice

→ from Talk:Keiran Thackeray (Hero)

He has a voice now when he gets hit etc like all other heroes. Does anyone recognise it? I don't pay much attention to these things normally, it was just weird to hear him for the first time. 110.32.15.110 07:09, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

All NPCs and PCs have a damage voice. -- Konig/talk 12:05, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

really konig i've never heard M.O.X.'s --The Holy Dragons 12:28, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe not speech but sounds and "voices" (as close to a voice things would get) - for golems it's a bunch of grinding gears and metal like sounds, for moa its the shrieks, etc. It's in the effects bar in the volume menu. One could call them all voices, as they would be the voice of the creature(s), but it won't be speech. -- Konig/talk 12:33, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

3 P

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Time for triple Paragon heroway. Rolain1 07:09, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Except that paragons make terrible heroes? --Curse You(talk|contribs) 08:12, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

no way they're great! --The Holy Dragons 10:15, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

DoA/Mallyx farmers are probably having a joygasm right now. To anyone who thinks paragons are bad: they become downright silly in packs. Ebirah 10:49, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

I thought that was obvious, what with their PvP skill updates. --ஸ Kyoshi 16:03, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Profession Change

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A guy gets married, and suddenly he loses his pants and starts running around shouting at people. Go figure. Anyone have any rationale why he would switch from Ranger to Paragon? PJ 13:36, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

1) He was turning into a paragon before he got married (see Shadows in the Jungle and Rise). 2) Outside of narrative of being a leader - what paragons are - if there were to be more heroes, the usefulness of a fourth hero wouldn't really work. 3) They needed some kind of reward for Hearts of the North. -- Konig/talk 13:50, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Besides the medals, of course. --ஸ Kyoshi 16:04, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Hello, complete waste of hero space. Koda Kumi 17:37, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

What the shit

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If you are giving us a Paragon, might aswell give him a Spear with it aswell. He even has Spear Skill and he has no Spear... InfestedHydralisk 17:44, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

inscribeable green > shitty blue spear not mod-able - Zesbeer 17:51, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

That bow doesn't even look good. I'd rather have a Spear for him to use instantly. And I never give heroes good equipment so I don't care what the stats would be on the Spear. InfestedHydralisk 17:53, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

I disagree. I quite like the look of the bow. In fact, it's one of my favorite bow skins. And besides, him having a bow is a nice "final piece of transaction" between being a ranger and becoming a paragon. And it's a nice easter egg (if it could be called such) to how you can kill Rotscale in the mission. So I don't see what's with all the hate just because you have to get a cheap spear for him. God forbid you have to do work! -- Konig/talk 18:14, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Atleast they could make more sense by not giving him a Spear Attack... :/ InfestedHydralisk 18:23, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

I'll agree, that didn't make sense. Would of made sense to make him default P/R with marksmanship points, "Find Their Weakness!" and some of his WiK skills on the bar. Too bad he can't use his sniper shot as a Keiran-only bow skills. :x -- Konig/talk 18:25, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

A great disturbance in the force would herald such a decision, Wise Konig... But yea, why a spear attack? Eh, it matters little. Its not like you cant change it...--Neithan Diniem 20:00, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Well, if you don't own Nightfall your paragon skill selection is very limited. You could just give him some bow attacks and keep the paragon support skills, though that's probably not a very efficient skillbar. 71.89.5.181 20:09, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

they could've let players get the bow from gwen in HoM instead of making people get a spear and shield.--Relyk 23:50, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Last time i made an ebon vanguard lose thier undies and start screaming was.. like Langmar... --Neil • 23:55, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Too bad you never kept up talking to her, I heard she died. - Lucian Shadowborn 00:36, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

"Well, if you don't own Nightfall your paragon skill selection is very limited. You could just give him some bow attacks and keep the paragon support skills, though that's probably not a very efficient skillbar." -- That would be a nice argument, but you can only get him as a hero if you have Nightfall, considering the target practice in the Garden of Siborhin, right? 94.209.65.245 14:55, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Nope, Norn Catering is an optional quest. You only need Eye of the North and Prophecies. -- Konig/talk 15:04, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

When you unlock heros your pve character unlocks their skills aswell right? Just wondering how that would work for his free elite chant. Bow is fugly but I could care less (some like these unique skins). Anyone crying about having to find a spear/shield is being rediculous. The % of the gw population thats incapable of aquiring these two items in under 5min each (gear equivilent to default) AND has access to Thackeray = 0 Justice 08:18, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

This. i mean come on? how hard is it to craft a spear and shield? 40 wood, 20 iron and you got a lesser guardian spear, same again and you got a shield of the wing (personally i gave him a Deldrimor Javelin and a norn command shield, looks cool and im gonna have him in my party anyways :3) 82.156.22.85 09:58, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

References

His hero battle quotes come heavily from Gurren Lagann. I know this because I watched Gantz Abridged, which you should too if you want to be a complete human being. -- 22:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

I can confirm this one. There's a green lantern reference in there too. 65.8.11.101 23:28, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

There's a Koss reference too ("This move always impresses Gwen/Melonni!"). :P -- Konig/talk 23:30, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

The "War never changes" quote is a reference to the Fallout franchise. --Santax (talk · contribs) 23:32, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

I just noticed that Gwen finishes one of his quotes. He says, "I'm here to win fights and chew mossgum," and one of Gwen's quotes is "And I'm all out of mossgum!" I'm pretty sure that together they form a reference to something. 70.130.35.66 12:27, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

The original version of that line (I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I'm all out of bubblegum) comes from "They Live!" which is both a ridiculous and amazing movie, I'd highly recommend it if you like campy stuff. Keiran's battle quotes were a combination of Joe and I writing them together, which is why they are almost entirely Gurren Lagann and Gundam quotes. We have entirely too much fun when this comes up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iqaZoiL1as&feature=related John Stumme 18:53, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Really? I always thought that originated in Duke Nukem 3D. I learned something new today! ♥ Tyloric ♣ 18:55, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Now that I think on it..."Mine is the spirit that will pierce the heavens!!" is obviously a Gurren Lagann reference. I can't believe I didn't realize that earlier! The original is, "Mine is the drill that will pierce the heavens!!" Fabala011 15:57, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Hahaha, interesting coincidence that you reference Zeta Gundam, and I'm currently on episode 32 of that series. So, since you've painted Keiran as Kamille, will there be a Jerid Messa reference rival character?--Yojimaru 21:06, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Isn't the quote "Balthazar bless my strength, teach my hands to war, and my fingers to fight." a reference to the sniper in Saving Private Ryan? I believe he says something like that in the town holdout scene. --Chamilla 23:28 2/6/12

hm

I think john's quote would fit better under Trivia though. Even though it deals with armor, it just screams trivial to me with his alternative armor sets that aren't in-game. - Lucian Shadowborn 15:39, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

I disagree. The fact that he doesn't have alternate armor was a note and very much so. The fact that he will have alternate armor is an extension on said note - no need to split and the former is far from trivia. -- Konig/talk 19:55, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

TTGL Quotes

Not sure about anyone else, but Anet just made me a very happy person with those. --- NessHrin | 03:48, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Make sure to give him a Spiraling Spear ¬ «Ðêjh» (talk) 06:47, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Wrong links in Hearts of the North skills

His two last Hearts of the North skills links to the paragon version of the skills and not to the Thackeray version. I'm not sure what the right way to fix this is, as we're using the same skill icon for both version. --Manassas 11:24, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

not any more.- Zesbeer 11:55, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Super .. Thank you, Zes --Manassas 12:06, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

motivation

r9 motivation in hom, not that anyone cares. Justice 11:24, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Some people, like myself, enjoy the odd random trivia. G R E E N E R 12:00, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Thackeray with Halo/Flaming Head?

I added an anomaly when disguised as Thackeray. Also posted screenshots on the wiki page. Feel free to edit anyone to organize it better. (still new to editing Wiki!) :) --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Undying Lust (talk).

thanks just remember to sign your comments with ~~~~ at the end of your comment on talk pages.- Zesbeer 09:17, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Lol, thanks. Undying Lust 16:53, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

HoM

In Hom he Used Signet of synergy when i tried to kill rainbow pheonix-- Ickoization 02:55, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

MOX comes with elite armor

MOX's armor cannot be updated because its elite by default. First hero I ever added to hall was MOX Refering to MOX when talking about Keirans armor is horribly misleading. Look at M.O.X. page. Ramei Arashi 17:54, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

"# M.O.X. is the only hero that can be added to the Hall of Monuments without an armor upgrade (perhaps because it lacks armor upgrades)" — M.O.X.

I don't think it's misleading to discuss Thack and MOX armor together; the statues of both heroes (in the HOM) are anomalous, since every other hero can be added after upgrading the armor. One way to explain MOX would be to assume that its armor is elite by default, but it's just as reasonable to suppose (as we have done since MOX and HOM co-existed) that its' statue is the exception to the elite armor requirement. Rhetorically, you can't have "elite" armor if there's only one set; elite presupposes a non-elite alternative.

In any case, I'm not completely opposed to changing the text. I think, however, (1) we need consensus on assuming MOX's default armor is elite and (2) we need to change all the associated pages (not just this one).  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 18:25, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Nothing says that M.O.X.'s armor is elite. It's just able to be put into the HoM without an upgrade. That doesn't necessarily make it elite. -- Konig/talk 18:33, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes it does, since only heroes with elite armor can be added. And it is misleading to mention M.O.X. because it makes it seem like M.O.X. cannot be added to the hall when it can. M.O.X. and Keiran are in no way connected. There are several sets of armor than come in elite only. All the EOTN armors for example are elite without having normal versions. 08:53, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Keiran's bows

Has somebody noticed that Keiran seems to change his bow for almost every encounter in HoM ? --83.194.131.84 23:35, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

OK nevermind, it seems that it's the same for every NPC --83.194.131.84 00:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

More Quotes

Kind of surprised no one has taken the time to spell it out yet, but these here,

"Mission accepted."

"The only way to live a good life is to act on your emotions."

"Let me tell you something: dying hurts like hell."

are all Heero Yuy quotes/references from Gundam Wing (two of them direct). ( http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Heero_Yuy ) Legendary Robanian 01:26, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

feel free to add that to the trivia section.- Zesbeer 01:52, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

well, the first two are direct quotes while the last is a paraphrase, but unless someone like me is fanboyish enough to get picky over it, that's the end of it. Still interested to see where the rest of his quotes come from. Because he seems to be nothing more than a hodgepodge of them. =/ Legendary Robanian 19:06, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

I walked out of Eotn by myself, and he waved to me and said "Hey, How's it going?". I was surprised, as this has never happened to me with heroes before. LanaDarkess 15:08, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

That's because he's not a hero right there. He spawns there for War in Kryta/Hearts of the North content - specifically for the scavenger hunt. That's no different than Gwen, Ogden, and Vekk appearing in the Hall of Monuments, or Koss and co. in the Sunspear command post place. He's the only one scripted to have dialogue when approaching though. Konig/talk 15:15, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Availability in Factions

I only own Factions, yet Keiran is listed under the 'Unlock Hero' tab from the Priest of Balthazar, but of course will only be available for PvP chars. I was pretty excited seeing it as I've never had the luxury of heroes. Does this mean he may be available for Factions only players pretty soon, along with Miku, come Winds of Change? Otherwise, is there a way to unlock him for PvE? Wolcott 10:36, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

It might be a bug, but it could also mean the introduction of heros in factions, in the Winds Of Change content.Snowstone 18:16, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Lieutenant Thackeray =/= Keiran Thackeray

When entering the HoM with Keiran as a hero he doesn't get the name "Ebon Vanguard Paragon" even though Lieutenant Thackeray is standing next to Gwen. 91.177.236.92

Mechanically, there are probably 3 or 4 different NPCs for Keiran (WiK keiran, Wintersday quests keiran (different skills), hero keiran, HotN missions keiran, and probably another for the HoM (different skills)); lore wise, they're the same. Similar situation to Gwen (4 different gwens mechanically - pre-sear gwen, BMP gwen, hero gwen, non-hero EN gwen). Mechanically speaking, there's probably a special coding with the heroes themselves which make them register a duplicate in certain areas, and Keiran the hero lacks this. -- Konig/talk 14:32, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

mossgum

Isn't this quote a reference to Duke Nukem? I mean, it sure looks similar... note: I've actually never seen They Live, so I could definately be wrong...--Mark, het Beest 10:33, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Okay nevermind I just saw on wikiquote that the Duke Nukem one was a reference to They Live... Is it certain it's directly from the film, or should Duke Nukem be noted too?--Mark, het Beest 10:37, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

John Stumme stated, somewhere, that it was a quote to the movie - and to Gwen. At least for Keiran. Whether Gwen's quote is referencing They Live or Duke Nukem is unknown. Konig/talk 15:25, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Lieutenant Keiran Thackeray

The introduction line uses [[Keiran Thackeray|Lieutenant Keiran Thackeray]]. I question this because this presentation of the NPC's name never appears in the game (at least, I can find no documented examples in the wiki). He appears as Keiran, Keiran Thackeray, Lieutenant Thackeray. But never using the rank plus full name. This is akin to introducing Gwen as Gwen Thackeray or Rurik as Prince Rurik of Ascalon, which are implied and reasonable titles/names of those NPCs that do not appear in the game.

Accordingly, I don't think it should be the first thing that people see in the article. In general, I think we should be consistent with nearly any other article by beginning with the article title version of the name. Later, we can point out possible synonyms (although, as pointed out above, the game doesn't use this three-noun version; only wiki contributors do). – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 16:07, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Minister Reiko, Orion, Stefan, Reyna, Danika, Lukas, Lina, Koss, gw2:Caudecus (for a GW2W example), and other NPCs that I'm forgetting (I don't recall specifics atm) often have such to show relevant titles and the full name of the character in lore - Keiran is either shown as "Lieutenant Thackeray" or "Keiran Thackeray," true, but we cannot show this in the introductory page. Other articles that do not do such merely don't because either the article name is the full name+(relevant) title, or they don't have such. Or, such as in the case of the Nornbear, it's not relevant enough to bold - even if it's a name seen in game. Though your last example (Prince Rurik of Ascalon) is not correct, as "of Ascalon" is unneeded (and unused). Konig/talk 16:34, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't think we should do it for Orion et al either. My point about Prince Rurik is exactly what you said: it's not needed. He is Prince Rurik of Ascalon (rather than some other possible Prince Rurik), but it's not necessary to point that out, especially since he is never referred to with that title. Similarly, in-game, no one speaks of Orion Elek — that's a conclusion that we drew because we know he's Sandre Elek's brother, but it's entirely possible that he's just Orion or has some other last name. (Well, no, we know that his last name shows in Spanish, but that's an accident that doesn't apply to Thack.)

In other words, if the name isn't used in game, I don't think it should be the first thing someone sees in the article. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 08:32, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

There are actually a few versions of this NPC, named either 'Lieutenant Thackeray' and 'Keiran Thackeray'. I think the current introduction is an elegant way of acknowledging that they are both this character. --Santax (talk · contribs) 09:12, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Actually, TEF, Orion's last name is seen in Pre-Searing. Not just by Sandre's name mind you. But I would have to disagree with "if the name isn't used in game, I don't think it should be the first thing someone sees in the article." Because, technically, in many cases the first thing seen are quotations from the manual which, such as for Danika, puts the NPC's full name and/or title which won't always match the article name. The article name should match the most commonly seen/used form of the NPC's name, except when there's multiples of the name (which is another matter), and imo the bolded version should either be the full name or the seen name - and, imo, full takes precedence (tell me, where else will it be in the article? Notes? Oh yes, slap lore into the mechanics, which is what the notes section is 90% of the time, and not with the other lore).

As Santax said, it's a "way of acknowledging that they are both this character". In the cases of NPCs where these alterations are not seen as the NPCs name, they are denoted in dialogue and thus serve the same purpose but for different reasons. Konig/talk 17:25, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Chant Wing Colour

Not sure if this has been observed before, or if it is just my computer, but while doing the Winds of Change content, I noticed in the Shenzun Tunnels when Kieran uses a Chant, the angel wings that appear behind him are white/greyish. However, for my player character, also a Paragon, they are still gold/yellow. Anybody else finding this? 82.11.226.30 23:58, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Holding a shield during dialog 14

Did anyone notice that Thackeray alternates between a shield an no shield at random? So far I've spotted an Ebon Hand Aegis, Adamantine Shield, Tall Shield, and No Shield. I put a note on this page, but Ill leave the same question in reunion.A Liability 11:10, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

I love it how people use the history summary to have chats about elements to include or not to include on a page. PLEASE use the discussion. Anyhow, I don't see how saying Thackeray carries a shield in the proposal is any more of a spoiler than the underworld comment (thats a spoiler :P). And just because we think something doesn't belong shouldn't mean we rescind the information without a careful debate on what is valid on a separate talk page / other page. This is a wiki, meant to distribute information quickly at the cost of some lack of verifying. Obviously the amount of work one puts in to verifying is determined by the impact of the statement. Will I go and do a 5 hour discussion as to comparing common notes on other NPC pages and this NPC page should include "spoiler information" which involves this character in a quest? I don't think that'a an effective use of our time.A Liability 19:03, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Starting q Hearts

I have given him a lot of items and still not satisfied. What do i have to give him? and do i have to give the him all at once?(i already wasted a lot on different occasions and nothing, out of supply)0 --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 188.240.44.19 (talk) at 15:57, 31 August 2012 (UTC).

After giving him either 3 imperfect items or 1 perfect item per wish, you may need to click on the "Almost? What more could you possibly need?" dialogue option (with the cross in the dialogue to exit) to prompt thackeray to do his Hall of Monuments epic-fail chatup dialogue 77.97.208.117 16:26, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

M.O.X.

Does M.O.X. Even need to be mentioned on this article? While neither have armor you can change M.O.X. can actually be added to Hall of Monuments. Making the armor note misleading. Drogo Boffin 04:23, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

I agree, it seems superfluous. — Raine Valen 0:40, 9 Sep 2020 (UTC) 00:40, 9 September 2020 (UTC)