Talk:Abaddon

Abbadon Godliness

So Abaddon, god of Demons and Destruction, is actually Destruction, god of Demons and Destruction? lol Thats just odd.

Well He's God of Water and Knowlage but I guess because he was stript of his powers you could say he is a good of Demons and Destruction. He can't be that smart if he got killed by a bunch of adventurers :P . Would have been nice to see some small cinematics about Abaddon though. --Andyana 15:39, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

YOU GOT SERVED!--Bazooka56

Stats?

Does Abaddon havae any stats like Health? can we know this or does he have energy that sort of thing?

I did some testing on Abaddon to get his health and armor rating. His armor seems to be the same against all types of damage (I tested holy, fire, cold, earth, lightning, slashing, piercing and raw physical damage) and is 110 in nm (42.1 % damage from a sniper-headshot) and 116 in hm (37.9 %), if I made no major mistakes - the differences between the numbers are only minor ones (1 armor rating) at low damage. His health is a bit more difficult to determine. I used screenshots of his healthbar (which was scaled to nearly the width of my screen) before and after dealing 1000 damage to him to calculate the amount of health he has. It seems to be about 12250 in nm (1000 damage were either about 8.246597278 % or about 8.166533227 % of his healthbar with the difference beeing just one pixel), and about 13000 in hm (7.772435897 % and 7.692307692 %, again just one pixel difference). The health he loses with beeing chained seems to be 1000 in both cases (8.166533227 % of his health in nm, 7.612179487/7.692307692 % in hm). Oh and yeah, those numbers are a bit to exact rounded for the accuracy of the method. Should any of these stats be included into the page? Bernado 07:19, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Gods of Guild Wars Index

I'm new here but shouldn't the Gods of Guild Wars Index navi thing be attached to the bottom of this page? Archon Xi 03:41, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Should the lore from Guild Wars Taiwan be included?

The circumstances of his casting out was described in the Guild Wars Taiwan website. It's not on the US GW website nor in the game. GuildWiki currently covers it, but GWW isn't GuildWiki. So what do people think about covering it or not? If it is only on the Guild Wars Taiwan website and nowhere else, should it still be considered cannon? -User:PanSola (talk to the File:Follower of Lyssa.png) 11:00, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I think it should. It's still from an official source, after all. --Santax (talk · contribs) 11:01, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Siblings

The dialogue in War_Preparations_(Recruit_Training) mentions that Abaddon was imprisoned by his siblings. So does this mean the Gods are all family? Yukiko 02:56, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't think they mean it in a literal way, but as more of a companion kinda thing. brains12 18:42, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

About banishing of Abaddon.

I might be good idea to add the reason why Abaddon was banished. I'm personally very interested to know :) (Jope12 15:59, 21 October 2007 (UTC))

Aside from the whole "attacking his brethren with his Margonites" thing, wasn't he the one who gave magic freely to humans (this later had to be dealt with with the whole Bloodstone fiasco)? Eldin 23:06, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Pink?

Is this article completely pink because of all the spoilers? Even the infoboxes are pink....Dancing Gnome 15:22, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

The NPC infobox is that colour all the time. The spoiler warning is red because it's a warning message. The God nav is the same colour as the infobox because the same colours are used for related materials. I don't know why the middle text is red though. - BeX 01:21, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Good Abaddon

As you can see from some gw.dat searching on GWGuru's forums, there is an image (it's a mural in a dungeon somewhere I think) of what people believe may be Abaddon before his banishment. I don't think wikipages are to host rumors/speculation, so I won't mention it on Abaddon's article. Still, perhaps it is worthy of note? If I recall, we DO have an infobox for speculatory/rumored content to use in articles, after all. Eldin 23:06, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

It's definitely Abaddon, he has the same appearance in some of the concept art in the Nightfall pre-release bonus pack. -- Gordon Ecker 07:12, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Seers of Twilight?

An anonymous editor added the following to the article:

"However, he was visited by The Seers of Twilight, who told him how to defeat the other Gods, he failed in his attempt and was banished to the Realm of Torment."

It seems dubious, and I think it should be removed if no one provides a source. -- Gordon Ecker 06:47, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Talk:The Seers of Twilight. Not much but more comments. I've never heard of these, but they keep being added, so we might ask someone at Anet. - anja 07:14, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Ask Emily. — ク Eloc 貢 16:49, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I'd say it sounds like some guild trying to create their own fiction. -- ab.er.rant 09:01, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Same here, never heard anything about this before although it might still be worth it to check with someone from ArenaNet. --Kakarot 00:47, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

It's been removed by Tanetris. -- Gordon Ecker 00:04, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Drops

lolwut? I got a water wand from him. 76.176.199.250 01:27, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Abbadon is still a NPC that can be killed, and as such he sometimes has random drops. All of his drop are generic, however. Secksy 19:07, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

@ 76.176.199.250

1. We don't list common drops, such as water wands or Elonian Daggers, otherwise all monster pages would be cluttered with garbage.
2. Please follow the GWW:1RR.

To anyone that can, please undo the recent edit. Thank you. --Ezekial Riddle 19:17, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Still funny when he used Words of Madness, then dropped a Spatha. "Madness? THIS IS SPATHA!!!!" Paddymew 10:58, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Hah! --Ravencroft0 12:18, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

80.39.57.83 23:18, 12 July 2009 (UTC)Dropped a normal ele tome for me.

Dropped an ele tome for me too; maybe he's an ele not a paragon? 92.0.104.20 00:49, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Hands?

Do you think that the picture of Abaddon should show his hands?--Unendingfear 00:24, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

I think that it would seem stupid if it didn't... He looks more like some kind of octopus or Ice Beast than himself in the mish... Paddymew 16:51, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I think we should include both a head shot and an image with the hands such as Image:Abaddon's Gate mission.jpg somewhere in the article. I'd prefer to use a render for the infobox. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 21:58, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Abbadon's Mouth?

What about the Mission in Prophecies that is named after him? (It's either ANet having ideas or it's a unknown link to Abbadon's relm or something (well at least that is what I think)) Teranda Whisperwind 17:18, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

The name was probably a "hint" at who the evil plotter was who was causing all the mayhem. And there is a portal (or something) to Abaddon's Realm. It's called the Door of Komalie. -- Azazel The Assassin\talk 19:32, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

the Door of Komalie leads towards The Foundry of Failed Creations. Fox007 19:49, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

And the Foundry is in the Realm of Torment - Abaddon's Realm (stating if you were trying to state otherwise). -- Azazel The Assassin\talk 19:51, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

I wasn't stating otherwise^^ Fox007 20:15, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

"In Demonology"

Whose? I assume Dante's work, as I've not seen the name in D&D, Warcraft, or Fire Emblem, but the article could use a bit more specifics. -- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 21:46, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Ancient Jewish is my guess... I've only encountered the name of Abaddon in two places, and that's in Psalm 88, and the prophecy of Revelation. In the former, Abaddon is an embodiment of the 'pit' that the Psalmist often refers to 'being cast into' (either himself or his enemies), and in the latter, "Abaddon" is the name of the Lord of the Abyss. I do know that when it comes to 'heirarchies' of angels and demons, the Talmud and other old Jewish writings have a bit to say... You might want to start with wikipedia's article on Archangels, and start following links to their sources.... -batmanhatguy

'Abaddon is technically not a boss from a game mechanics perspective.'

How so? Multi-part bosses that need to have their parts shut down are in many, many games. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:78.146.226.18 (talk).

1)Please sign using ~~~~. 2)A boss has an aura, you can use SoC on it, it gives you 2% Morale Boost, and Nightfall bosses have halved skill costs. Does Abaddon have any of that? Titani Ertan 19:24, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Is this note really necessary? I mean, he is just as much a boss as Shiro Tagachi, Rotscale and others but do not have this kind of note. -- Konig/talk 08:46, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Order of Whispers as worshippers of Abaddon

I think it makes sense that the Order of Whispers, which is considered a benevolent secret society, may have evolved from worshippers of Abaddon, the god of secrets, who did not become corrupted when Abaddon fell. Instead of following the god into oblivion as Margonites, they stayed true to their original understanding of Abaddon and awaited his return to the world as a good god, which they find in the Goddess of Truth, thus becoming her primary worshippers while still staying true to Abaddon's ideal secret society. This also explains why Abaddon had fallen in the first place. He was supposed to be a god of secrets, but he was explained to have been exiled because he was too liberal with giving knowledge of magic, which would have been the biggest contribution to the magic wars of ancient lore. The ancestors of the Order of Whispers were probably worshippers of Abaddon who saw his exile as a necessary punishment for his negligence to his responsibilities. --24.27.20.20 21:38, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

I believe it makes more sense that the Order of Whispers was formed long after the time of the Margonite; mainly because you don't see the Order at a large scale, like an organization as such should grow with time, and they had a lot of time. Another reason is that Abaddon corrupted the soul of his human Margonites to make them demonic; and I don't think he would have spared any humans.

The Order didn't know <spoiler></spoiler> would be the Goddess of Truth at the time, and so they couldn't have followed and aided her in such a manner (also, they're not her worshippers). If the name is what disturbs you, then think of this: the Order of Whispers are dedicated to attaining all human knowledge and recording it; from the screams of the noble to the whispers of the gossip, collecting each piece of information they can find. That's how I believe they made their name.

Abaddon has been exiled because he corrupted human souls, gave them incredible magics and waged war. The humans in discussion are the demonic Margonites, and as explained above, there cannot have been human Margonites left. Nice theorycrafting, but I don't think that's the case. Titani Ertan 04:36, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

The Order of Whispers were formed by Turai Ossa to keep watch over Palawa Joko. Overtime, it seems to have grown to be an organization to keep watch over all things otherworldly (and keep an eye on the governments). -- Konig/talk 08:40, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Profession

What exactly makes him Paragon? God of Water would more likely be an elementalist, as somebody above mentioned about his tome drops. Mediggo 14:04, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

You're right. I think that like Shiro he doesn't have any profession. Fixed. Titani Ertan 14:11, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Shiro is defined to be an Assassin. At least he does double strike, and it's unlikely that the bodyguard of the Canthan emperor would be anything other than Assassin, though he looks quite a bit like fancy-dressed Warrior. Mediggo 14:16, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

According to Game mechanics, he isn't an assassin, and there was a loooooong talk about it. If I remove the assassin part, I'll get into a revert war. You don't define a profession by game lore. Titani Ertan 14:19, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Double striking is not part of lore. If he's not primary Assassin, he is secondary Assassin. Mediggo 14:23, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

He wears a dual blade. It's like saying that Abaddon is wielding a scythe because he can hit multiple enemies. But why are we discussing Shiro on Abaddon's talk page? Titani Ertan 14:25, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Earth Shattering Blow is an attack skill. There are -many- attack skills which hit multiple enemies or have other AoE effects. Shiro double strikes. Only creatures capable of double striking in the game are... well, Assassins. And the discussion is here because it's related to undefined professions of final bosses... I think. Move it to Shiro's page if you wish. Mediggo 14:30, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

I just took a screenshot after fighting Shiro; He gains energy from Critical Strikes whenever he crits. Will provide the screen shortly. Mediggo 14:33, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

End game bosses across all games are notorious of taking game mechanics that otherwise wouldn't touch them and applying them to themselves. Normal GW bosses have that, too. I don't see this any different. Titani Ertan 14:35, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

I just remembered that he steals health with Battle Scars. Nevermind what I said. Mediggo 14:37, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Uhm, Shiro drops Assassin tomes, that is how we clarified Shiro is an Assassin - not due to double strike. Abaddon, if I recall correctly, has dropped Elementalist tomes for me in the past. -- Konig/talk 17:34, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Look/check this out

User:Necro_Shea_mo/A_testement_to_the_god_Abbadon--Necro Shea Mo 02:56, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Revised writing

It's IMO incomplete. I wouldn't mind if the article had been written assuming the present as the beginning of Nightfall, but if we state that Abaddon was the former God of Secrets, the article should mention why he isn't the God of Secrets anymore. The way it's written also implies that the Realm of Torment was Abaddon's realm before his imprisonment, which is speculation (and probably isn't true, anyway). The article Gods of Tyria also states reasons behind Abaddon's attack, while this article states his reasons were unknown; which one is right? And lastly, what's the source for claiming that Abaddon was the source of magic, and that he gave it too freely? Erasculio 22:48, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

On "what happened to him" - I didn't include it because it is pretty much the spoiler of Nightfall (meaning that there isn't a bigger one in that campaign) - similar to Khilbron being the lich for Prophecies. These spoilers might be noted before the revelation, but I didn't want to include it. However if others want to, feel free to. On the Realm of Torment, a few .dat descriptions (such as the one of the Ebony Citadel of Mallyx, which isn't on the article) state that Abaddon was imprisoned in "his realm." Though the .dat isn't the best source, it could be true and thus not entirely speculation. As for Abaddon's reason, I think the Gods of Tyria article stated lore from an asian site that was translated, so that would be correct (I forgot about the reasons). And lastly, the same source as the comment for Abaddon's reason for him giving out magic. Unless this has been retcon'd. Should probably check with a dev before cutting it out of all the articles since it is in not only this and Gods of Tyria, but others such as Magic. -- Konig/talk 00:28, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

An update, for the background on Abaddon, Leon helped me find it. The original source was this, but the page was changed/remove. Discussion on it can be found here and here. -- Konig/talk 08:04, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

It's still a badly writen article, filled with information that has no confirmation of being official. I mean...

• "Abaddon, the former God of Secrets and Water, is the predecessor of Kormir, Goddess of Truth. He used to be among the six Gods of Tyria, as the God of Knowledge and Water": do we really need to state twice how Abaddon was the god of Secrets/Knowledge and Water?
• "a Titan that was found by the Charr, Saevio Proelium (who may be the Titan which the Charr found)": that barely makes sense.
• The second paragraph is about the servants of Abaddon, and then the third paragraph goes on about the same subject.

And so on. I'm making it a bit less bad, until someone with better writing skills can clean this up. Erasculio 15:42, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

It's even worse now

As bad as the previous writing was, the current one is even worse. This article is big enough for having to deal with the lore about Abaddon and the representation of the god and the Nightfall's boss; pointless additions by users too fond of their writing are, well, pointless. We don't have to describe the Jade Wind in this article, given how there already is an article about it here and the internet has a really cool feature called "link"; likewise, we don't have to describe how the Flame Legion found the Titans here, given how all of them have their own articles. Unless someone has a very good reason to repeat here content from other pages we could simply link to, I'll remove the redundant paragraphs. Erasculio 20:00, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

It does seem a bit redundant to other articles. --JonTheMon 20:03, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Erasculio, honestly, while I agree that the copy over from GW2W is highly unnecessary, I highly disagree that what you had was any better. My revision might have needed editing for grammar and sentence wording, but you removed canon lore and called it "fan-fiction" (you seem to call any lore you don't agree with being in the article as "fan-fiction"). Personally, I say put my revision up then edit any grammar and sentence wording - not removing canon lore, such as Abaddon being the one who gave out magic, and why. -- Konig/talk 21:00, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

As soon as you can show us a good reference for all that belonging to the game, sure. The lost translation of a Thai interview is not the best reference in the world. There's way too much room for interpretation and speculation in something no one else can check for details. Erasculio 00:26, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

The translation isn't lost - the original is. Though the easiest case for this would simply be to ask a dev. In fact, I'll just ask John Hargrove (would ask Linsey, but her talk page is still locked). -- Konig/talk 00:36, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

While some expansion on the article might be fine, I don't think it needs to go into detail about the events Abaddon's servants caused.--Pyron Sy 00:49, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

(EC) Similar requests have not been answered. It's not impossible that Arena Net cannot answer some questions about unofficial content. Regardless, the translation has too much room for interpretation, and the lack of any other source with even similar content prevents us from discerning what is true and what is just opinion in there. Unless Hargrove answers, I don't think content from there should be here. Erasculio 00:50, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Seeing how what was on the official site is official, it isn't unofficial content (.dat content and lore from the official site are two completely different things - one was released, the other wasn't) - also, the size of the request is rather different. -- Konig/talk 01:55, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

I prefer to see Official lore from the Official site on this character here. Not gw2 articles over to here. My thing is, if you like those articles then like them, but gw1 should be about gw1 and not gw2. I feel that we should fix these articles up for this game only and place spoiler notes when needed of these games, not of a game that's not out yet. Kaisha 21:55, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

True Form

Is this his true form? Is this what all the gods look like? Is he really a floating head and a pair of hands with tentacles or is the layout of the battleground supposed to imply there's a body beneath where we can see? Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 20:28, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

According to files in the gw.dat, this is actually a reconstructed body - a second body, and an incomplete one. According to the .dat files, he was killed during the war before the Exodus, and his soul was imprisoned in the Realm of Torment - during Varesh's rituals he was able to unlock gates which allowed him to create a new body - when Varesh "completed her convocation with Abaddon" unlocked the Gate of Pain which allowed him to begin recreating his body, and the ritual of the Blasphemy unlocked the Gate of Anguish, allowing him to further his recreation of his body. But this is not his original, or "true," form. Dhuum would be more accurate for how a god may look - but even that is questionable as he might have been killed as well and, like Abaddon, reconstructed his body. But that is just speculation and a possibility. -- Konig/talk 20:53, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Oh wow, I see, so that was the deal behind those "portal" things at the Mouth of Torment and the floating sword and what not? They were gates sealing his body parts? Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 22:31, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Nice explanation. However, Dhuum was never klled, as it explicitly says Grenth couldn't do it, so he had to imprison Dhuum in the Hall of Judgment. -- Large 22:40, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Those, I think, would of been his armor and weapon from his death and no direct reason for his recreation, else he would be wielding a sword in the final mission. @Large, it was just a theory that was brought up elsewhere on the concept that Dhuum's appearance may not be his real appearance because the gods (well, Abaddon, since he's the only god aside from Dhuum that we literally see) doesn't seem to have appearances based off of their domain - they just have depictions of it, and that the reason why Dhuum does have an appearance of death is because he recreated his body thus his body is incomplete. Also, slay may be used in the term of eradicate, i.e., Dhuum still exists so he wasn't slain, while he could of been killed and become just a soul (until he recreated a body). But that was just a theory and not facts. -- Konig/talk 23:10, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Dispute

What part of the page is on dispute?--Wysth 12:42, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

The lore, I think. See Talk:Abaddon#Revised_writing and Talk:Abaddon#It.27s_even_worse_now. Manifold 14:35, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

The despite has indeed been the lore section. First I rewrote it to include all the information we had, then Erasculio hated it and removed a lot of lore, then someone copy pasted GW2W's info over Era's edit (which was a bookah move), which became an edit war, and then the dispute tag was put up. I intend to fix this sometime.... -- Konig/talk 18:25, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Ok because as long as the banner is up we can not feature it.--Wysth 20:21, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

God of Water

Where do we learn that Abaddon was the God of Water and Knowledge? If it's just the manuscript calling him the "Lord of the Everlasting Depths, Keeper of Secrets," then I don't buy it. The author of the article seems to have taken the "everlasting depths" to mean water, but the text goes on to state that "the seas boiled and ruptured, and gave birth to a maelstrom from which not even light could escape, and transforming the sky above into a midnight void." To me, that relates "everlasting depths" to "midnight void," giving it more of a Domain of Anguish kind of tone, not water. Can anyone confirm the water portfolio? --RoyHarmon 22:21, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

I wonder how many times I will have to link this translation of a page that was on the Taiwanese site. "Abbadon's original job is to rule over knowledge and water, but soon he became everyone's abyss of pain and nightmare. " -- Konig/talk 00:57, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

But where's the original article? Is it possible that it could be a translation of the "Scriptures of Abaddon" text that I quoted? If that's the case, the phrasing could be very questionable. I'm looking for original information from ArenaNet, preferably in English. --RoyHarmon 01:35, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

It's not the scriptures, but rather an extension on the manual entry in the gods section. And the English translation is in the source I linked, the bits in the manual are crossed out. Look at the first post in the section... -- Konig/talk 01:36, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Link was broken. --RoyHarmon 01:44, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

The link I provided works, the link to the original no longer works because the original was removed for some reason (perhaps the page was changed). But the link I provided goes to the translation of the original, which was in Taiwanese. -- Konig/talk 01:48, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Edit: It seems it was removed because everything of the GW Taiwanese site was removed. -- Konig/talk 01:50, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Mostly, I'm wondering if anything was lost or approximated while translating from Taiwanese to English (or vice versa, if the creators designed the game in English), since I can't find anything in English that mentions water. "The Everlasting Depths" might have been translated in a way that was easily re-translated to something closer to "water." For instance, if the English "Everlasting Depths" were translated as something closer to "Endless Oceans," then we might be mistaken in thinking water magic had been Abaddon's domain, even if the translation you cited is an accurate conversion back into English. Hence the desire for an original English source. Perhaps I should ask Emily. --RoyHarmon 01:58, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

I'd recommend asking emily, yea. A non-english source that doesn't exist anymore is not really a reliable one, and that's without getting into the translation issues you mentioned. -Auron 02:52, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Haa?

l he "coalesce part of his godform"

What does this word mean? Also where did this come from? Abaddon's body was destroyed as throughout Guild Wars Nightfall he "coalesce part of his godform" as the event of Nightfall was brought about. This may explain why he is fought as a head and two arms.

77.164.165.114 20:37, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Google is your friend. Dime Cadmium! 20:52, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

I stated in the note: from the gw.dat (thus it isn't known to be canon lore and was put under the Notes section). If you don't know what a word means you should look it up. -- Konig/talk 22:10, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Cthulhu?

I think Abaddon is Cthulhu. Both are prisoned in some dark realm, both select victims through dreams, both have tentacles... --88.195.247.220 11:40, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I always thought that Abaddon selected influential people and made them corrupt others *Cough Cough*--Markisbeest 12:18, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Or Abaddon is w:Abaddon. Le gasp! -- Konig/talk 03:35, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

When I think on the fight against Abaddon i don't think on Cthulhu, I think on Bongo Bongo !! :D Lokheit 14:41, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Trivia

Is it just me - and I could have said this when nf came out - but doesn't Abaddon resemble end game boss Andross from starfox 64?Kyle van der Meer 15:14, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

No more similar than any 1 and 2 hand giant boss. Not relevant trivia imo. And I do recall this being said somewhere before. -- Konig/talk 19:32, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

It would be interesting to know exactly which two gods Abaddon engaged in combat and overwhelmed. My money is on Lyssa and Melandru. No way he could take Balthazar and Grenth solo. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 99.40.139.203 (talk).

I don't think he did fight a 2 on 1 battle, based on the translation's wording, merely that he could - which would mean with any two gods. -- Konig/talk 06:31, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps we should adjust the article's wording a bit, then. --RoyHarmon 11:20, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

You Got Served

IMDB has added some annoying crap to the link. Is there any way around this? – NuclearDuckie 11:52, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Abbadon's death/ The End of Nightfall

→ moved from Feedback talk:Gaile Gray

Not sure if this is the correct place to ask a few questions, but I am confused.

1. Does Abbadon die and if not could we see a return in GW2?
2. If he does die, how can you kill him and not Shiro?
3. What happens to the Kournan Goverment after Varesh dies? (I assume that General Morgahn takes over, but he comes with you, so i don't know)
4. Who becomes Spearmarshall after Kormir becomes a god?
5. Why did the end of the story have to be so predictable?

Thank you! AboveAverageJoe 20:30, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Hi. While I'm sure the discussion would be very interesting, I feel there are several places where you're more likely to have a good discussion of a lore-related question. Consider posting on a lore-related page here on the GWW, or a lore fan forum. Alternately, you might post on the page that specifically discusses Abbadon. Thanks. -- Gaile 21:59, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

here's your answers for you

1. Abbadon does die but they are thinking of having him make a appearence
2. You kill Shiro in Faction's but Abbadon uses him and the Lich to help cause troubles. after you kill them the second time... they are dead
3. Unknown on goverment
4. Dunkro is the obvious choice for spearmarshell
5. if you knew what was happening then you must have had a good understanding of the story.

Anything else you need to know? Ocren 04:16, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I remember an interview where Jeff Grub stated we were done with Abaddon. Abaddon was now part of Kormir (His power, his knowledge, as she states it), and Kormir is now the new goddess of Secrets (Later renamed to Goddess of Truth). -- Large 16:36, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Before Abbadon

I remember that there is one quest where a friendly margonite has you find scripts, and he was friendly because he read somewhere that there was someone BEFORE abbadon, and like Kormir took Abaddon's power, the same could be done to him. It foreshadows Kormir's ascendence to godhood. In any event, shouldn't the quest be mentioned on the page? Especially because it brings the extremely nagging question of who was a god before Abaddon. Personally, I've always wondered that, and with the imprisonment of Dhuum and the death of Abaddon, combined with the Facet quests, i am extremely curious about what it means to be a "God" and what powers they have.

Sorry for not signing, found the quest, it is called The Apostate.--Bold Baby Undies 20:47, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, logic would follow that Abaddon could have absorbed his powers from someone else as Kormir does with him. But also consider the ramifications of absorbing the "power" of a god of knowledge: the knowledge itself is the power... which is a nice way of explaining why everyone who knows about (and presumably joins with or resists) Abaddon becomes tainted by his "touch." Following that logic Abaddon's madness (referencing several skills he uses during the final encounter of Nightfall and zone names in the Realm of Torment) could be caused by knowing of his own demise and, among other things, potentially knowing the fate of any who came before him. But where the Nightfall storyline loses me is, how do you destroy knowledge? As above, anyone who knows or learns why the killing and destruction is taking place is, by definition, already tainted and needs to be destroyed themselves. There are ways to make that happen as part of a personal (and suicidal) crusade... but I wonder if Kormir might make a nasty return in Guild Wars 2, possibly having been corrupted by the same madness that gripped Abaddon, even as a possible story plot of why the 6 have gone silent except to answer prayers? But back to the history and defeat of Abaddon: it makes more sense to destroy Destruction, and cause Terror to flee in fear. :P 98.169.44.231 23:06, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Proposed rewrite at Abaddon/Temp

→ moved from Talk:Abaddon/Temp

Oh wow thats a lot of text. -Chieftain Alex 00:12, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

A request to Santax - don't replace the main article with this for a bit. I'd like to go over it but as Alex said "thats a lot of text". You use a lot of arbitrary wording throughout the whole, which I think comes from the sources, and it's best to still link those sources because otherwise folks wouldn't know where it comes from. Plus, we really should separate modern from historical situation, because that's just one huge wall of text which really pushes folks away. Konig/talk 03:02, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I hadn't planned to - anything in this article that comes exclusively from the forum thread (i.e. has no in-game source) should be referenced to that thread, because it is likely to be questioned and we'd have no way to cover our backs if parts turn out to be inaccurate. That needs to happen before this article can replace the other one. We also need to compare the two versions and make sure no information on the other one is lost, and make sure that any lore on this one that is inconsistent with GW1 lore is reworded.

Re: this edit, I think it's pretty important to note on the page (a) that Abaddon has a predecessor in the same way that he is Kormir's predecessor, and (b) that parts of his realm are composed of the corpse of a dead god. They're both interesting, so should at least get a spot in the trivia section. It is canon that Abaddon had a predecessor and it is semi- or non-canon that Arachnia was a god before Abaddon. At some point it was likely that Arachnia was intended to be that predecessor, but the note doesn't even go so far as to say that. The note that was removed was composed of two sentences, both of which were statements of fact. Any link between them is made in the reader's head, not on the page, which is fine - that is the fine line we must walk.

As for the length, I can't see splitting the introduction into sections gelling very well with the mechanical sections, but most people are going to be on this page from GW2W for the lore. What I'd suggest is to be pretty brutal in the intro as to what needs to be kept what doesn't. We don't have the room the intro to accommodate all that info, and I'd rather not split it up into sections, so for once I'd suggest moving the parts that aren't directly relevant to the character of Abaddon to other pages, such as magic, Exodus of the Gods, Margonites, Forgotten, and so on. It's an excuse to rewrite and update those articles and it keeps the new information featured prominently on the wiki. A lot of lore articles on this wiki need an update anyway, particularly those that are prominently linked from GW2W. --Santax (talk · contribs) 08:40, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Wordy wordy wordy. That's why I've been unwanting to proof-read yet (walls of text are off-putting even to me). Regarding response to the edit: I agree with point a, but this is relevant enough to denote in the main paragraph (which for the current version is); I disagree with point b - all we know is that his realm has insect-like aspects in some places. Everything else you mentioned has "canonocity questionable" placed all over it (not semi- or non-canon; it either is or isn't, and we just don't know). "Any link between them is made in the reader's head" because, whether you realize it or not, you're imbedding the thought into their head. You present a set amount of points, right next to each other, but you don't connect them - you're just given them a connect-the-dot diagram, numbering the dots to show which connects to what, but letting the reader draw the line. It's just a psychological trick to make them think it was their own idea (the very premise of the movie Inception, no less, though the movie does it a lot more physically).

For length, I think one section will do, along with removing your much-beloved prose style to make it more concise (without removing any information). We've done this before, though I can't remember which NPC it was, where we had the first paragraph be about modern times, then make a History section about everything prior to the game. In this case, taking half of the first and last paragraph, then splitting the rest into one single section. Konig/talk 13:38, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Editing notes.

1. Added a "History" section - for the time being at least - to separate Abaddon's past life from his general description.
2. I'm unsure whether to use the external source's description of Abaddon since it may be an old design description that followed this concept art or the like, given how we don't see any wings in his in-game version.
3. I didn't include "It is said that Abaddon's appearance is a direct representation of his heart." because it possibly contradicts the gw.dat that says he created a new body from the Realm of Torment itself, which is likely more up-to-date but less canon-plausible.
4. Added a bit from gw2:Quiz Terminal that says Abaddon gave different groups unique magic.
5. Returned the external links, as otherwise we'd be ref linking the same two links dozens of times.

Will be editing the rest (5 paragraphs) later. Konig 02:46, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Look. You came to me for help, so when I give it, don't respond with sarcasm, bizarre allegations (such as accusing me of trying to "psychologically trick" readers), or tangents about Inception. I also see you've extended your "no speculation" rule to "no content that, whether relevant or not, might possibly provoke speculation. I don't want another repeat of what happened on GW2W so I'm going to back out of this discussion now, but I urge you to get a second opinion from someone as I don't think much of the changes are an improvement on the original draft (which needed a lot of work), and may not even be an improvement on the current Abaddon article. --Santax (talk · contribs) 22:28, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I wanted your opinion because you are - for better or for worse - the only other major lore article editor on the wikis. I didn't respond with sarcasm, at least not intentionally (do you refer to "wordy, wordy, wordy" et al? Because that wasn't sarcasm but just a response to length). The psychological trick wasn't an "allegation" so much as "this is what becomes, intentional or not." And sorry if my edits to not copy verbatim a fan source is "bad" (but then again, you desire everything in prose so of course anything I write up will be "bad" for you) - but I certainly don't think it's great either, just better than copying a really old source which seems to have had changed information. Konig 10:33, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Deletion

→ moved from Talk:Abaddon/Temp

After much consideration, I believe it would be best to not add in the info from here and here - adding information from the latter being why this draft was made. My reasoning is simply this: in the case of the former, the original source no longer exists (it was from the Taiwanese version of NCsoft's website) and what's there is a fan translation. Though the source is official, since the source no longer exists we cannot verify the translation (though I doubt it's wrong). In the case of the second, it's a (more viable) translation of a document found in various asian GW fansites' archives of lore documents, but the origins are not entirely verifiable and more important, some of the information seems to be from pre-beta and having been changed since (for instance, Abaddon's appearance). With both of this in mind, I think it's best to write an article with what's only presented from more verifiable facts and leave these two as simple "further reading" links like they already are. As such, I view there's no need to keep this draft. Konig 22:35, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

if Santax is still around, I'd like to check that they also are ok with the deletion. (both of you put considerable effort into it) -Chieftain Alex 08:59, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Don't delete...yet please. I would like to get into the minds of Konig and Santax to see from their eyes. At least post-pone. Yoshida Keiji(talk) 10:47, 22 March 2013 (UTC)