Talk:Guide to MQSC

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The TOC looks a little funky, you think you could find any better place to show the profession symbols than the section titles? :P Jeree95 (talk) 14:17, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Moved so that TOC is cleaner. Not perfect though.--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 17:34, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Someone want this page deleted[edit]

I'm ready to start a thread but unless the wiki has a special clause on this I see no valuable reason for deletion.

  • The wiki's purpose is to gather all informations on the game.
  • Everything on this page isn't plain copy/paste of other webpages. I added my own experience as a MQSC guild leader.
  • Unlike other SCs whose sole purpose is to make money, MQSC can up the luxon title (which can be dedicated to HoM), help reach the requirement for Befriending the Luxons, unlock allegiance skills and up your alliance's faction to control towns.

Sincerely, Ruine--82.240.45.162 04:18, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Like other SCs, it is a 'SPEED CLEAR' focused on the fastest time, not merely the title or any of that you're pointing out. Vqing any luxon area can get you up the faction to get and own a town as well as the pvp areas such as AB, FA, and JQ. So, the sole purpose of any SC is not money, but Time and this is why it's called a speed clear not a money clear. The wiki's purpose is not to gather information on things that Anet is not supportive of. You do not see a page here on FowSC, UwSc, etc. Which those two are made to gain ecto and obby shards. FowSC could be excused for people who want to get and make armor and decide to join an SC for this. I am also a former MQSC guild leader and a former MTSC guild leader, but you do not see me adding MTSC here. Because they are all the same in regards to time, not money. I know people who collect Zodiac items or even Echovald items, etc. Some found only on one or the other. There are other farms like the Dragon Moss Farm, etc.,; things that are specific for those items. Farms are majority solo, not team work. I do not believe Speed Clears belong on this wiki, because ArenaNet has changed skills to kill off old Speed Clears like DTSC, TOPK, etc. 24.51.181.74 06:13, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
I think this here sums up the reasoning. 24.51.181.74 06:18, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
I'm generally in favor of any "guide-format" article that helps teach new players and informs them with GWAMM-related stuff (since significant portion are GW2 players wanting said title). While most forum/wiki fan-related stuff are not worth noting, the historical and meta-stuff are worth documenting. --Falconeye (talk) 06:32, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
Where is the line saying that GWW opposes to having "Guides" and walkthroughs of Speed Clear ? If you show me anything where it is explicitly said that there won't be any word about SC here, then we will delete that page. Let's divide this in two :
People who play SC generally don't care about time. They care about getting what they learned the Sc for. Ectos, Shards, Dryad Bow, Luxon faction, Kurzick faction... I never regarded Scs as a run, but rather as a team farm.
"The wiki's purpose is not to gather information on things that Anet is not supportive of." What about Texmod ? I know that Anet doesn't support everything. However I'm pretty sure anet isn't against speed clear, since it's a player-driven cooperative work. Nerf of DTSC is a consequence of a more general nerf to SF and Holy Wrath (which were overpowered). MTSC and MQSC are different in that they are also about getting a town for your alliance.
I hope you will understand why I did what I did. I know about several useful things rather well; I don't claim being the best nor to know everything about it, but I wanted to share my knowledge with other people. The Guide to vaettir farming page, the LSoA page, the last cartography mod for texmod are all similar works of mine. It is possible to do like in texmod's case and simply put a "use it at your own risks"-like warning.
One last side note : the game is very unlikely to change now due to anet people working on another, much bigger, thing which is gw2. The probability of MQSC or any other SC to be touched by a nerf bat is roughly 0.
Also please get a user account it's quite uncomfortable to talk to anons--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 11:40, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
And what will be that editor's argument if one day GWPvX will no longer be available? "Back in the day, you had the ability to check it on site x"? :) I'm not much into PvE these days since it's not in demand of extensive play-tester's feedback, but am still occasionally browsing through various guides for it on this wiki, and honestly, I don't see any strong reasons of why I should be denied of such possibility. Dmitri Fatkin (talk) 07:35, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
I have a user account here, Runie. I'm just doing like you and using it half the time. So, if you're going to insult me instead of reading other player comments on the same subject that reject this here. Also, you're not doing people a favor and creating scs for other groups. I suggest you should have done this on your own userspace, before wasting public space and gotten opinion.
To Dmitri, don't be so blunt in not knowing and assuming false information. Curse and Wikia will keep ticking as long as the games exist. Neither have plans of removing wikis as they do not take up that much space. I know this for a fact as it was very very hard for them to delete a wiki for a friend of mine that was not really technically related to what they do and the part of the game that the person did this for. Next time, research and ask the staff of those wikis. You can always find information, if you knew where to look. People know where to look, let's not make this a redunt of other wikis. This is a documentation of the game and as far as I knew, Deep has an Sc that is done a lot more than this MQsc. Secondly, there's no mention of these other SCs nor the updated builds on MQsc on the Dervish and Monk for wallow Team that is a new alternative. There are alternative builds that are not included. This is one sided and not everyone wants their builds known that works. It is a fail page that will always need constant updates and it is harder to get a username with the auto block of ips that could belong to real people. I don't think either of you are considerate or thoughtful of this sc and it's changes as well as the alternatives that it has - including duo players with discord. Nor the other scs and their constant changes of builds that I have seen, even lately of doing these same SCs. To tell me things are dead and not changing, is a lie. 24.51.181.74 00:31, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
I don't see why the wiki hosted by ArenaNet should rely on content stored on the other sites at this stage of the project, really. And since I'm not anyhow affiliated with Curse, I've got absolutely no idea what might happen to content currently stored on their websites now or in the future, as it's their upper management's prerogative, and I won't trust anyone besides these individuals when it comes to the length of their specific website's existence, no matter what the company's regular reps told to your friend. Call it healthy skepticism. Dmitri Fatkin (talk) 01:35, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
Ruine, would you please send me an email? I think we can resolve this with Curse and without input of hostility from untrustful people. It'd be an honor. Thank you. Rodan (talk) 19:25, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I like you Rodan, but I grow tired of this debate. Skills, areas, quests, teambuilds may change : the wiki will always try to keep track of what was and is usable. Especially now that the game is extremely unlikely to change. I see no harm in gathering knowledge and ease the job of guild leaders. Ruine--93.25.120.137 20:44, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Alright. Just I know someone that fixes up the curse mqsc and they asked me in game to see if they could get in touch with you and I can only give you the info that I was given through email. From my understanding, they want your input to accurately fix up the mqsc and mtsc pages respectfully. I think it's to keep them updated and accurate without the missing information that's not there. This is all that I was told by the person. Rodan (talk) 03:41, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
That's really nice from you but I believe this person has eyes to allow him/her to read the page and watch the videos. And fingers to play the game, because I am pretty sure some people still do that. More seriously, I have put on this wiki pretty much everything I know. I'm not keeping extra data for the pleasure of keeping things secret.--193.48.141.104 07:01, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
She told me she's wanting ideas/suggestions more on the creativity of the page over on the other wiki. Discussion of how things would look where things would go, etc. She doesn't want it to be exactly the same as here, but similar to the mtsc page and add in a show hide, if possible. She really wants to try to make and have things to work. I think she wants to collaborate privately with ideas, etc. I'd say give it a chance. It is possible that she doesn't have anyone there who knows mqsc to go to. Rodan (talk) 18:05, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
If that was a compliment on my page layout, thanks I'm trying my best to make it simple :) but MQSC is an easy SC, perhaps the easiest. Even tanking, which is the most difficult role, is not so hard. If your friend wants to put a MQSC team up, she really should go ahead and train for each route (they can be done separately in small groups of two or three, three people for the yeti route , two for wallow route, and two/three for the beach route). Buying an armor with 5(starter)/7(collector)/15(first armor crafter) armor rating is inexpensive, and you don't need many runes for health (though the higher the better). Monks are extremely needed for this run, but ritualists can tank very well too. I suggest your friend to get a look at [[1]] (and Minion trick) to have your team get access to FA quicker. As you will see, some tips I use in cartography have other uses. You can go without Shield of Judgement if it's so hard to find (capture in Mineral Springs...), but your tank will struggle against big groups, especially Tomtom's. No cons needed, only 100g if you want the blessing. I can't post an e-mail address here due to the wiki rules, and I can't play the game for now (wifi issues) but my talk page is a place where I can have more private talks.--93.25.120.137 22:30, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Strategy vs. Tactics[edit]

First off, I'm not going to delete this page. Second, I think we can do a much better job fitting this article into something that the wiki can properly handle.

The overarching idea for this page seems to be letting people know how to quickly gather up points. The intro gives a summary of the topic, and then the discussion goes into the strategy, which seems to be focused on there being three distinct paths when traveling through MQ. This is a good thing, since the wiki can cover strategy rather easily.

What this wiki cannot do well is handle tactics. Tactics are the tools within the strategy which are used to accomplish the goal. Tactics are born from people's minds or trial and error, and they change over time.

  • Strategy: Stating each path be tackled independently by separate groups in order to save time.
  • Tactics: Stating the composition of those groups and their specific duties at each step.

So what did I mean by "...something the wiki can properly handle"? Glad you asked. If this article becomes a page that needs to be constantly updated as the tactics people use/discover change, then I'm defining it as something the wiki cannot handle. Pages like that can quickly become a) too long b) full of terribly written sections c) targets for constant reverts and disagreements. I don't want to watch any of those things happen. If the article is going to be a source of valuable information, then it should focus on avoiding the aforementioned issues.

Now you may be wondering what to do with all of the solid tactical advice which currently exist on the page. I suggest moving it here, to this talk page. We can leave a bullet point in the Notes section which says, "For some suggested group composition, please see the talk page." I don't want the talk page to become a source of numerous edits - since the talk page is designed to discuss the article's composition, content, and layout - but there's no reason to lose the information which has been gathered.

Obviously, this is my personal preference, and it is open to discussion. G R E E N E R 05:04, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

I can see where this is going. Hope the meta team info won't take too much room.--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 08:12, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
That's the problem, the tactics of the wallow team rits vs the dervish and monk are drastically different and would take up a lot of room. The Yeti team sometimes does not deal at all with wallows and the finisher often over steps with certain builds that's on the page, but outdated. The Beach time sometimes has to deal with the boss that the runner does not get down or dies trying. There are many tactics that are not noted on the page that would make it too much to read. I have asked my friend who has an account on gwpvx to update that mqsc site there with some of your information that is accurate. Otherwise, this page is redundant to the Speed Clears page that could with hold some of the same information on strategy that'd go for any speed clear, with links to updated pages and see to it that those pages are updated. It's simple logic, but I feel like logic was lost, before said creation. 24.51.181.74 08:28, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
I didn't know creating this page would cause so much reactions. Anyway, the route is steady and MQSC is one of the first Scs that a guild is gonna do (luxon title, control over a town). Deepsc sounds irrelevant to me, but i'm not knowledgeable about it. All I know is that Deep takes much more time, require a lot more game experience and (probably) yields much less faction. Keep me in touch for that dervish+monk build (though now that you said it, I can imagine rather well how it works. Dervishes as usual...)--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 09:08, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
My last word will be this : things might be changing, but the game is slowly dying. There is only one thing that can cause a game to die and it is the lack of new players. Slowly, all that will be left in this game will be hard core old gamers like you and I. We know things, but who will we be teaching this to ? Nobody. Let's move to the next challenge.--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 09:28, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
RoJ may have been used by smite, but was never recommended by HOPE, Wckd, etc. those that have taught and even the current that still teach mqsc, including Euro guilds. I have never seen an RoJ pinged for an Sc by any group, including Germans. I think this is due to the fact that the smite can cause the tank to loose energy and fail from the scatter that the RoJ causes. 24.51.181.74 09:43, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
We have Category:Builds to handle all established metagame tactics; guide-formats should focus on strategy and link to specific tactics. --Falconeye (talk) 16:46, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Meta team[edit]

How to use the team : The yeti team is composed of smite+tank+finisher. The wallow team is composed of the two ritualists. The beach team is composed of smite+tank but will be helped by the runner most of the time.

For the beach team and the yeti team : all maintainable enchantments must be used on the tank to ensure energy for everyone and damage through Retribution. Contrarily to popular belief, it is not necessary for the tank to have at least 500hp since as long as the initial damage (before reduction from Protective Spirit) was above 50, Spirit Bond will trigger and cause healing. However maintaining Protective Spirit and wearing a low armor rating armor is essential. Having as much health as possible is still good against life stealing from wallows and Consume Soul as long as Protective Spirit reduces the incoming damage to a value that can be outhealed by the healing from Spirit Bond. The tank must maintain Spirit Bond as long as possible. Shield of Judgment (and other skills such as Shield of Absorption) can help the tank gain momentum if the uses of Spirit Bond run out too fast (when under heavy fire from 5+ foes at the same time for example). Vengeful was Khanhei and Vengeful Weapon must be spammed on recharge for a passive life-stealing which both heal the tank and damage the foes.

For the wallow team : always use the spirits as a wall to protect yourselves from the wallows' melee attacks and touch skills. To kill an Island Guardian is rather simple with spirits, as you only need to attack it with a longbow (out of range of it) for your spirits to automatically attack it too. Painful Bond (to outdamage its healing) or Disenchantment (to remove its protective enchantments) will usually be enough to defeat it, but a well-timed Pain Inverter on Signet of Judgment (with spirits around you) is extremely efficient too.

Against onis : Precast (or recast) any enchantment on the 600 (Protective Spirit and Spirit Bond included) and have the smiter to cast enchantments on it (Holy Wrath). To kill a group of onis use Vengeful was Khanhei combined with Vengeful Weapon in order to kill the onis before they kill the tank.

Dervishes+Monk wallow route[edit]

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Somehow I can see a Mark of Pain somewhere. Smite Hex against Weaken Knees. SoJ is good for the survival of the VoS here, but 1) might make foes attack the smiter and 2)A RoJ in the ball is more in the idea of a spike. Splinter Weapon and Ancestor's Rage are cheap.--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 09:14, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

I have the actual builds in game... So, they're not like what you're thinking they are.
  • Monk/Necromancer Wallow Tank
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Spirit Bond
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Mark of Pain
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Ebon Battle Standard of Honor
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Blessed Aura
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Balthazar's Spirit
  • Dervish Wallow Spike
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Eremite's Attack
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Mirage Cloak
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Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support
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"You Move Like a Dwarf!"
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Sand Shards
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Vow of Strength
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Staggering Force
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Hope that helps. I think if you'd want - join DNA alliance - you can get current updated builds that way. 24.51.181.74 09:37, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
I thought the dervish would be the one to tank, due to all enchantments increasing its armor. Just saw the video, that build is nice. Zai Quang is definitely the best tank ever. The one who told me to use RoJ by the way xD. Also, thanks for the builds and invite, but i will have to decline. Like I said above, i will be moving to somethign new. I am just a random guy which has been wasting his time playing this game for far too long already.--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 09:45, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
I am pretty amazed by the fact that Mark of Protection actually sees use. Da Mystic Reaper (talk) 11:17, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
It is because Spirit Bond's uses will run out very fast. However this is a temporary solution in order to ball foes, just before the dervish spikes the ball. I suppose the player who created it tried everything, if he/she chose this over Spiteful Spirit or Life Sheath.--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 11:38, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
If you haven't done it or know the creators, how you know if it's temporarily? I wouldn't suggest this to be temporarily, because I know it to be permanent. MoP is a lot better with the runes of the monk and more effective than SS. I have seen this in action and been in runs as y tank to have them complete in 3 minutes. Secondly, not much conditions from the wallow and I wouldn't see LS working that well, when there's not that much conditions. 24.51.181.74 03:31, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
Yup. The point is precisely that they aren't so many good elite skills in either Curses, Protection Prayers or Divine Favor and none can compete with MoP in the job the tank must do. Nevertheless, the VoS+Smite may be interesting to check (with MoP on smite, perhaps)--90.56.108.189 19:01, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
Edit : forgot Spell Breaker.
Um, MoP isn't smite. It's the tank build. According to that ip. might need to look at the words above the builds to know which does what first. I do believe the tank goes in and balls up the enemy, while the VoS jumps in and spikes. Rodan (talk) 18:03, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

(Reset indent) The video is self-sufficient, I guess. The setup is very good already. However my own idea was to use the VoS as a tank, due to the high number of enchantments (mysticism) and +10 health regeneration from Mystic Regeneration which allows him to stay healthy. Also Dwarven Stability would give him extended stances. The real main downside of that setup is that there is only one, possibly weaker, Mark of Pain (instead of two) and this may be not enough to score a kill. If you're still afraid that the VoS may not tank things good enough, you can have some fun bringing Symbiosis for a whooping +1250hp-1875hp with 10-15 enchantments at 12 beast mastery. Not very serious, but enough to survive until the ball is done.--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 10:28, 10 October 2015 (UTC) Edit : oh, and you can also bring Mark of Pain on the two players in order to get up to three Marks of Pain :)--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 12:27, 10 October 2015 (UTC)