Talk:War in Kryta/A3

How to document random encounters?

Talking about stuff like Farmer Milton here. I was wondering how we should document this, as it is neither a quest, nor a mission. However, it should clearly be documented. Currently, Farmer Milton is not even linked from the article here, but imho, the best solution would be to have something like a category called "encounters" and place all these. A lot of other stuff (like a lot of the Gwen encounters) currently floats around. People who dont know where to search have almost no chance finding these in-game gems in the wiki. --Xeeron 14:45, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

They go with the area they appear at. If thy may appear in multiple areas, then they go in each of them, and they always appear in the page of the involved NPCs. We already have some examples, like Maw. Dialogs would go in each NPC page. MithTalk 17:07, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

But there is no way to find that page, unless you already know where he spawns, or you go through the all location pages. I propose that we do something to raise visibility: Better linking and having a category. --Xeeron 17:14, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

It would be very nice to have a category, I know that sometimes it is difficult to find these little Easter eggs, especially if they've been recently introduced. -- FreedomBound 17:23, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, there are other RAndom encounters than the ones War of Kryta adds, like the random dialogs in Kaineng City, the patrolling dwarves in Souther shiverpeaks, the White Moas, Kilroy or the Grentch-Snowmen fight, so if you add all random encounters, it won't be just for this. I don't think anyone would be against that. MithTalk 13:09, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure we already have those on their respective pages, so it would just be more of the same. Backsword 18:09, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, yeah, we'd leave them on their respective pages, but we'd create a new category called Encounters which would link to each of those respective pages. I, personally, think that's a terrific idea. I want to have each possible encounter listed on a category page. --Musha 16:53, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Encounters

These needs to be documented. If this is a passing event, they need to be documented here. If they are 'permanent', they need to be documented on their respective pages. The same goes for the peacekeepers. Either here, or on the location pages. (with conditions, in the latter case). Backsword 16:30, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Look up --Xeeron 16:59, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Xeer, but it doesn't answer my question. We already know how to document this stuff; the question is if we follow the style for events, or the style for 'permanent' content. Backsword 17:11, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

I believe it has been said that it is a permanent change, as all characters will be able to experience it, now or in the future. Worst case scenario, we just fix it. --Kairu 06:09, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

I think those who would do it rather not then have to turn around and revert all their edits, so it would be helpful do decide in advance. Backsword 13:50, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

For some user comming to the wiki, it is still almost impossible to locate all war in kryta content, without using Special:NewPages. I started Category:War in Kryta encounters to somehow put them all in one category. Not perfectly happy with it yet, but I can't think of anything better atm, and we really need to get this stuff organized. --Xeeron 14:13, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Is there someplace where the various dialogue is being put? Like the encounter with the peacekeeper goons in Nebo Terrace asking for travel permits??? -- Wyn talk 14:41, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Yea, have been looking for that too, maybe it isn't documented yet? Reaper of Scythes** 15:09, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

I have it, I just don't know where to put it..... -- Wyn talk 16:11, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

AFAIK, we don't have anything yet. It is not a mission, nor quest, so usually the dialog is put either on the page of a prominent NPC participating or on the page of the location where it is happening. The drawbacks are obvious (pages get long, hard to find). I think we should have an entirely new category of pages (which might be called encounters), each detailing one of these events. Like Nebo Terrace travel permit encounter or Gwen-Thackarey discussion. --Xeeron 16:25, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

I think the dialogues are on NPC pages - Lieutenant Thackeray and Inquisitor Bauer, for example. Moving them to their respective location page or even separate new "encounters" pages would be better. -- pling 16:30, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

So it's the Peacekeeper Goon that has the dialogue... it should go there??? (not the right picture on that page btw) -- Wyn talk 16:42, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

The Peacekeeper Goon that is leading the permit party is actually File:Bandit Raider.jpg. So I have a problem putting the dialogue on the regular Goon page. When you figure out where it should go, it's here.-- Wyn talk 16:55, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Ok, after giving this some thought, I believe that the War in Krtya is going to be an ever changing/expanding storyline in the coming year, at least according to Linsey's interview with GameSpot. I don't believe it's reasonable to integrate it into the main explorable pages, as it is separate. Only players who meet the requirements participate, so it seems senseless to add the peaceckeepers as Foes on the explorable pages, just as it seems seriously messy to add these Encounters there. What I would propose is to have a separate, but linked, War in Kryta page for each explorable ~ Nebo Terrace/War in Kryta for example. These separate pages could be linked to the main explorable pages, as well as the War in Kryta pages and could contain the lists of NPC's that appear only during this "campaign" (for lack of a better word), as well as documentation of the encounters, and quests, as they are added. This would not only keep the main pages from becoming ridiculously bloated, but would also keep it clearly defined for those players who have not yet met the requirements for participation. Thoughts??? -- Wyn talk 04:40, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Something like User:Wynthyst/Sandbox/Nebo Terrace/War in Kryta. As a subpage, it can contain only the information that is specific to the War in Kryta instance of the explorable (I didn't know what that explorable # was for the infobox). -- Wyn talk 12:38, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Seems the best solution so far. Reaper of Scythes** 14:21, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Would be better than how it currently is. I'm not sure about the naming though - should it be Nebo Terrace (War in Kryta) like a disambiguation identifier, or Nebo Terrace/War in Kryta? -- pling 14:53, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

GWW:NAMING, so Nebo Terrace (War in Kryta) Reaper of Scythes** 14:56, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

I chose the subpage form, but I don't really care, if you all feel the disambig format would be better, or more appropriate, that's fine, I just thought that for ease of navigation the subpage would be better since you'd have a direct link automatically back to the main page even though it is noted at the top. -- Wyn talk 14:59, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

And I've still not gotten an answer to if we trat this as permanent or an event. Backsword 16:44, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

I believe that Linsey's interview with Gamespot makes it pretty evident that the War in Kryta is going to be an ongoing storyline, with events and encounters (and most likely new quests) added throughout the year. I would not consider any of this stuff as temporary. -- Wyn talk 16:48, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Several issues here:

• Where do we put the information? Currently we're splitting up explorables into two pages - the regular page and the War in Kryta version of the explorable. Except, for most of the pages, they don't have a separate explorable id, meaning that technically they aren't separate locations (which means we shouldn't treat them as such on the wiki). We don't treat the Underworld with Gwen as a separate location just because Sarah gets a special dialogue when we bring Gwen there, why should this be any different? Exceptions are Talmark Wilderness (War in Kryta) and soon D'Alessio Seaboard (War in Kryta), because they are treated as separate locations (presumably because the Shining Blade camp is not on the original map, and unlike NPC's, it cannot simply be added). Usually, we would just list the "special" NPC's or whatever, and then list the requirement required to spawn them (for example, "the following dialogue only takes place after completion of Prophecies or GW:EN", or "Etham the Artisan (Etham during the War in Kryta)"). There's nothing stopping us from doing this.
• Permanence of the event. Linsey has stated the content is permanent, not transient, but I don't think it'll be updated throughout the year - I imagine that'll be Beyond as a whole - the War in Kryta will probably be all wrapped up by the end of the birthday celebrations. Even with a longer timescale, we should have no problem formatting as it usually would.
• Dialogue. We've discussed this before. I personally believe it should be documented exclusively on the explorable area page, because that's where we've always documented stuff like this, it's what the formatting guidelines advise us to do, and with the whole Peacekeeper Goon thing this becomes even more desirable. The NPC is just another Goon, no need to pretend it's a new NPC by documenting it separately when we can just keep doing things the way we've always done them, same goes for the EA's.

I'll make a few draft pages according to the formatting guidelines to show how it should be documented when I have the time. --Santax (talk · contribs) 19:59, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

This is pretty much my view too. I was primarily unsure if the material should go on an event page, as is done with say Wintersday, or done as normal content. If it's corrent that it's here to stay, there is no issue; we just consistantly do as with all other pages on the wiki. Should dialogue get extensive, it can be broken up to a page of it own. If Linsey has said it's permanent, I see no reason to doubt that. (otherwise, gw:b could have been a series of events). Backsword 20:33, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm truly disappointed that this discussion has just ended without any sort of resolution or consensus and that the information is being just mixed in with the normal information on the main pages. They are messy, and confusing. -- Wyn talk 08:51, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Does not exist?

Just because it doesn't have an id number in the dat? Well.... go there with a character that has completed the requirements to participate in the War in Kryta, and tell me that it doesn't exist. Have you all lost your minds? This does exist in the game, it should exist on the wiki. It's easy for people to find the information on the content, it's easy for people to add to as new content is added. What is this obsession with whether something has been assigned a number in a file that the average player will never see? -- Wyn talk 19:53, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

I love the navbox and how you set it up, Wyn. Anyone who tags it for deletion is a moron. If they say it's not done "properly" for whatever dumb reason, then why don't they say how do it right? Deleting it is not an answer. Rose Of Kali 20:10, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Re:Santax above: 1) Since it is a major, semi-permanent change to the explorable area for a character, I could see it having its own page. And really, do we have to limit our pages to those with IDs? 2) Scalability is nice. The hall of monuments page is getting kinda large. And with separate pages, sequential dialogue that goes between areas might be easier to keep track of on separate pages. 3) That's not fully applicable to this discussion, because that's NPC vs explorable, and this is original explorable vs updated explorable. --JonTheMon 20:19, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

"As I mentioned before, the War in Kryta is the first part of "Guild Wars Beyond," an ongoing campaign that expands upon the Guild Wars storyline by focusing on key characters and historical events that shape the world in the years leading up to Guild Wars 2. In the coming year, Guild Wars Beyond will continue to reveal the lore of Tyria beyond the events of the original games. We've got a lot of cool stuff planned this year that will engage current players and set the stage for Guild Wars 2. ~ Linsey Murdock [1]"

Ok, if you don't like them named "War in Kryta" then let's name them "Guild Wars Beyond" so that the additional content can be added. I think Linsey is pretty clearly saying there is going to be more to come throughout this year at least. And I don't think putting all this dialogue on the main explorable page (or the NPC pages) is working AT all, they are cluttered, and it's very difficult to decipher what dialogue takes place when, when it was added to the game, etc. As time goes on and there is more and more of this type of stuff, these pages are becoming unmanageable. Oh.. and btw... the Goon you mentioned? is not just another Peacekeeper Goon it has a different model than what is pictured on the NPC page as I mentioned earlier, so putting the dialogue on that NPC page is wrong on more than one level. -- Wyn talk 20:24, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Still, making a separate page for each of the explorables with an encounter is the wrong way to go about it, I think. It's really nothing more than a quest altered spawn. It would be the same as making a new NKP page because the heroes of Ascalon are hanging around outside LA. I agree there does need to be a better way to sort and find the new info, but adding duplicate explorable pages isn't it.-- Pyron Sy 21:10, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, until there's a better way, that seems to be the only way. They could always be modified into an inclusion later, or just copy-pasted, but at least there's SOME way to document it all for now. And your analogy is flawed. The Ascalonian settlers outside of LA is one standalone encounter, while War in Kryta is a series of encounters what is likely to grow very fast and very large. Another flaw is that it's not just a quest altered encounter, it's a beating the game altered encounter. You will have passed through here on your way to beating the game, and now you don't give a crap about all the other location info, you've seen it all before, you only want to see what's new. On the other hand, when you're going through the game for the first time and want to look something up about this area, you don't give two shits about two pages of dialogue that you're not gonna encounter until you come back after beating the whole game. So I disagree with putting it straight in the explorable's article, a link to a separate page works best. Also, for the players who have at least one character that qualifies for these encounters (i.e. most GW players) and are interested only in what new is going on for this "event", there has to be some way to put or link it all into one place. Wyn's navbox does exactly that. Rose Of Kali 21:51, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be much simpler to put Pre-update / Post-update ? Or Talmark Wilderness 1080 AE even. Main page Talmark Wilderness with "this area has a 2nd version -click here-" Like the gw2w links. Simple and effective. No need to put "War In Kryta" as an area because "War in Kryta" isn't an area. It's nothing but a label for what's going on right now. Markus Clouser 00:46, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Because in the case of encounters, it's not really a "version" in most cases, the area is unchanged except for the one encounter that doesn't show up until after you beat the game/EotN. Rose Of Kali 01:11, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

First, I agree that the content can not go on the usual explorable area pages. It is too much, cluttering those pages and also pretty hard to find there. However, I also see the problems with creating an "alternate explorable area" page. In my mind, we should closely construct encounters pages like we do quests. Think about it: It has some prerequisits, it changes a small part of an explorable area, it features dialog and fights. If it were not for the missing quest giver, it would be a quest for sure.

If we model it like that, we can easily accommodate the "encounter chains" that seem to develop, and we already know how to link it: By listing all quest/encounters on the appropriate explorable area. Treating them like quests will also help if encounters pop up that work across multiple explorable regions. --Xeeron 11:06, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

That's an interesting way of looking at it, and Anet may continue to introduce the War in Kryta in a chain/storybook manner, with us hopping through "encounter chains". I would worry that we would still have too many NPC's listed on the map pages with addendums (only during the quest ____) cluttering up the basic page. For people who travel/use these areas before finishing the game, parsing out relevant information would be slow and cumbersome. For now, having an easily adaptable place for relevant information (ie. on a seperate page) would be the safest/easiest way prepare for the new game content. This keeps what are already good pages clean, and allow us to play around and modify the new info as it comes. G R E E N E R 10:34, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, I see the similarities, but I don't think there is enough of it to warrant seperate articles. Take a look at War in Kryta/Checkpoint dialogue, which is seperate because it is transcluded. Not really much of an article in it self. Of course, if the dilogue gets to the point where we have so spplit it of, that transclusion can just be changed to a link. As such, we may end up with something quite sliek what you propose just by following the 'natural' process. Backsword 11:19, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

For small text passages, you are right. However much of the WiK is very text heavy. Look at the link for talmark provided below: It turns what is a very simple explorable area into a huge page. Jon is right about it being confusing. Or look at all the Gwen text in HoM, that would be much better off in a separate page. Since it looks like these text heavy encounters will multiply with the WiK content being rolled out, we should have a clean solution ready. --Xeeron 16:45, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Not sure why you take that argument seriously. We've had pages like that for three years and not a peep before, from anyone. Check a selection of mission articles, as an example. Of course, the pages can may end up massive if Anet has a lot more encounters in mind, rather than switching to the promised quests. While we are not doing this event style, Farewell to Gaile and Farewell to Gaile/Dialogue is an example of how we've dealt with that before. Wouldn't that incidently come close to your encounters article idea? Backsword 19:13, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, that is pretty similar. --Xeeron 09:14, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

We might have to do something even more similar to what you suggested, at least for the checkpoints. they seem rather less than static, so some research is needed, but a special checkpoint encounter article seems unavoidable. Backsword 10:59, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Re: concerns about integrating the War in Kryta information "cleanly": it can be done, and has been done - easily. There is literally nothing from stopping us from doing this according to the formatting guidelines. --Santax (talk · contribs) 12:05, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

No, it hasn't been done cleanly, or easily, in point of fact you have completed screwed the page histories by moving and redirecting. There is no way for people to easily see what is newly added as part of the War in Kryta, as opposed to what is there normally. There was no reason to add all the original stuff to the new page until the discussion was finished, especially considering that had already been done on Talmark Wilderness (war in kryta) which you have now redirected to the page I created as part of this discussion, and you have moved the discussion from that page. There was also no reason to create Talmark Wilderness (War in Kryta)/Draft since it simply duplicated the originally created page. -- Wyn talk 12:13, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

I would have to say, the NPC's on Nebo Terrace really are confusing, especially since the War in Kryta and the normal NPC's are pretty mixed together. --JonTheMon 12:58, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

^ agreed, separate pages or at least more fully separated sections on the existing pages would be cleaner. Also, it's convenient to have some sort of nav for the War stuff as opposed to searching through the instance pages. I liked Xeeron's idea, though the encounters could be all on one page or whatnot. --67.240.88.57 21:01, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Thank you all for reminding me why I hate wikis. Instead of pursuing the collection and organizing of information, they invariably degenerate into arguing over policy for policy's sake... And this isn't even about policy, it's about guidelines! Remember folks, the purpose of those guidelines is to make things easier on everyone, not harder. In the meantime, folks like myself who aren't major wiki contributors but would like to stay up to date with the events in the War... Well, I suppose we'll just haphazardly put together the info in our minds until you good folks reach a consensus. :/ Janwen 17:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Rose is right, this isn't just a quest-altered spawn. Unlike a quest-altered spawn which reverts back to its original form once the quest is completed, this is a permanent change to the game which is triggered by completion of Prophecies or EotN. And although they may not have their own ids in the .dat, they are, in fact, separate and distinct instances of the explorable area. A player that has not beaten Prophecies or EotN will NEVER see these NPCs or experience the encounters, so they do not belong on the original EA page. But a player that HAS beaten either game will ALWAYS see them, so it deserves a page, and one that's separate from the original. There are now 2 instances of each of these areas: a pre-WiK instance, and the WiK instance; they should be separated and labeled as such to distinguish them, it doesn't matter HOW its done, as long as its done. Although, I, personally, prefer the disambig format where we have the NKP page and a NKP (War in Kryta) page. I also really like Xeeron's category page idea. I think this should be developed on AS WELL. So each of the WiK EAs have disambig'd pages AND a category page that lists all encounters (WiK, Gwen & Thack, etc). --Musha 19:28, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Wyn, keeping this information in the "normal" explorable areas' articles is simply not viable. I think we need either alternate pages like Wyn did, or to have all encounters listed in a single place like Xeeron did. Erasculio 21:24, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

These are separate entities. The pages being unified is cluttered and ugly. Keep it as two separate pages, and quit putting it up for deletion. This page is well organized and clearly explains that the zone is radically different. Not only are the spawns and events different, but higher resolution textures are used, on par with Eye of the North. This alone, is reason to claim it is a new zone, not to mention the content shift. Just because it doesn't have a separate dat ID, doesn't mean it isn't completely separate. LordSojar 23:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) The pages being unified is accurate. I think that's the most important thing in documenting the game. And spawns and events are different, but that's the case for pretty much every other explorable area in the game - spawns change based on whether certain conditions are met all the time. That doesn't warrant us creating an extra oage each time it happens. And the thing about higher resolution textures is just untrue. The fact that it doesn't have a separate dat ID just proves that the game does not consider it a separate explorable area. --Santax (talk · contribs) 23:21, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Research

Started some research for the checkpoints here. Backsword 11:22, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Encounters Index

a few things 1 the map is out dated and needs to be updated. 2 can we make that list a little more exact as to where they are i also know that some of them i think only appear after you have seen all of the encounters at the camp.- Zesbeer 23:02, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

You like? Backsword 23:14, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

yes much better need to upload maps and need to confirm the exsistance of the Captain Greywind encounter because i tried for it last night and got nothing i must have zoned 3-4 times maybe more.- Zesbeer 23:23, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

I had to rezone 20 times for one scene. Backsword 01:09, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't think the "repeatable" column is correct. I've seen the scene outside Temple of Ages at least 3 times. It hasn't shown up every time I zone in, but every couple times I still see it. Veron 02:25, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

It's sure to have errors. If you see one, please fix it. It can only be as good as we editors make it. (tho', note that it is per character, as all PvE content) Backsword 02:42, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm not familiar with wiki coding. With regards to the "repeatability" of the encounters, I believe that they're all repeatable, though I only know of that one example from ToA, so I don't want to delete the whole column. Those three encounters at ToA were all seen by the same character. Veron 06:24, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

there is a process of going thew and verifying everything and that will happen when everything is out imho.- Zesbeer 08:15, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

The update notes mention an encounter in Ice Cliff Chasms, but not with whom. I haven't had any luck getting it to occur. Manifold 22:51, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

off the top of my head: gwen devona thackery langmar and there about 3 others. ill get it to happen again and post a screen- Zesbeer 00:26, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

No devona. Thackeray, Gwen, Evennia, Langmar, Casey Carpenter (he even has a dialogue of reporting his number like the Wintersday dialogue), and I think there is another Vanguard guy. -- Konig/talk 02:03, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Sergeant Weststar is the other one. --Orry 02:37, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

here is a screen with everyone there. [2] here is the new dialog to i dont know if someone was looking for that i think they were but i dont remember where... [3] - Zesbeer 06:02, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Is it just me, or does Thackeray no longer collect stuff for Random Sacks of Junk after Evennia shows up? Veron 18:57, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

I haven't verified this since I collected all my Random Sacks of Junk before I continued the dialogue, but I believe that is correct, since once the Evennia dialogue occurs, Thackeray leaves and goes on down to the Shining Blade camp. --Musha 16:20, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Encounters: Part 2

I noticed that the pervious discussion on the exact of how/where to document the new encounters never acutaly reached a conensus. Seeing as the Gwen and Thackery/Main War In Kryta Dialouges have spun off into their own pages, perhaps now the seprate dialouges in the expolreables can have their own page? So that we can have all of them in one clear area, instead of all over the Wiki? (and apolgises for any typos/spelling mistakes)--Mari Rose 20:45, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

A little late to the discussion of this myself, but it would be nice to see the new NPCs and dialogue in their respective places but not with the areas that haven't been touched by a person going through Prophecies for the first time. So there would be Nebo Terrace with all the information that a first time Prophecies player would encounter and a spoiler alert with a link to War in Kryta Nebo Terrace for those that have progressed that far in the game and need the extra info. This is assuming the new content doesn’t spawn for a first time player. Sardaukar 22:52, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

What I also find annoying is that in the encounters list there are all these "read" links pointing to #Dialogue on the explorable pages. Well, some explorables have multiple dialogues going on with little to no distinction of which belongs to what encounter from the list, and it still feels like a big mess. Here's Nebo Terrace that you will never see if you have beaten the game. Oh, and here's Nebo Terrace that you will never see if you haven't beaten the game. Oh and again here's Nebo Terrace that you will never see anymore if you have beaten the game. Oh, and here's... - uuugh... <_< Rose Of Kali 07:33, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I still believe that having a separate page per encounter is the cleanest solution. --Xeeron 10:34, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I strongly agree with Sardaukar and Rose. There are now 2 separate instances of each of these War in Kryta areas. For example, there is pre-WiK Nebo Terrace and there is WiK Nebo Terrace. Just like Nebo Terrace has its own page separate from the Black Curtain because it's its own explorable area, so, too, do both separate instances of the WiK areas deserve their own areas. Sure, they may have the same name, and same landscape, but they are, in fact, 2 separate explorable areas with different enemies, different NPCs, different dialogues, etc. So, yes, let's give them their own pages and link them together with the disambiguation template. --Musha 18:30, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Are you sure they exist as separate instances? When i checked after the events just started, Nebo Terrace still had ye-olde in-game link, even though peacekeepers roamed around. The only zone where there was a new zone link at the time was the one with the shinning blade camp. Worth a check i guess--Fighterdoken 22:04, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

If it has new dialouge and npcs that only exist once you finsh Eye of the north or Proph then I think we can safely say that it can and is a seprate instance. and deserves to have it's own area where we can cleanly and clearly record the dialouge and so people can find it easily, imo, if your new to the wiki and trying to find the disalouge/new things it can be pretty hard because currently it's all over the place. I did like Wyn's idea with the nav box, it was very easy to use. Mari Rose 12:28, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Agreed on Wyn's template. Perfect imo. Sardaukar 14:04, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Same. Rose Of Kali 14:25, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

If you are referring to this then I agree as well. It is VERY clean and organized, looks great, easy on the eyes, and makes BOTH pages more user friendly. How about one of us just takes the initiative and puts this all together? --Musha 17:22, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

That would be awesome. I'm not really up to date with this stuff, so I don't want to mess with it. :P Rose Of Kali 18:31, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm giving it a small attempt, but my knowledge of coding (as well as how to use info boxes etc.) is limiting what I can do. Any help/suggestions would be welcomed! G R E E N E R 18:50, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

The pages I originally created Nebo Terrace (War in Kryta) et. al. are still in place, I pretty much gave up on the idea when Santax went ahead and added all the information to the main pages rather than continuing with the separation, despite the fact there was a discussion going on. I still prefer the separation as well, as the main pages are just really cluttered now, and very confusing for those players who have not unlocked the War in Kryta content. The pages I created are all linked in the nav box on the bottom of the War in Kryta page so getting them up to speed should not be that difficult. I know that there needs to be pages for more areas, but it seemed to be getting so much resistance, I basically quit in the hopes that consensus would be reached. -- Wyn talk 21:03, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

I would like to add, once again, there is NOT a separate DAT instance of these areas, with the exception of Talmark Wilderness, thus the "Does not exists" delete tags on these pages. However, there is no rule anywhere that says we are precluded from creating these separated pages because of that. What we should be most concerned with is the most appropriate and user friendly organization of the information, which, in the currently jumbled up state that the explorable pages are presenting it, is not happening. -- Wyn talk 21:20, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

I think it primarily stalled becuase we lack information on how large it will be. That idea of putting all the dialogue on one page may work with the current amount, but would be unworkable if it grows significantly. We've also been told that there will be quess, but non have appeared yet. I's not known if any of the substories thus far encountered will be continued, and if so, in the form of more encouners or in another form. Backsword 21:29, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

My quick thoughts before I'm out the door: a)I was a fan of making a page of supplements which people could be directed to, but it seems like some NPC's are taken out of the maps during the WiK (haven't done a headcount, yet). b) There needs to be a clear link on the original map directing people to the WiK versions (a disambig doesn't seem to stand out enough). c) Some maps seem to change very little, and we need to cleanly add the small WiK bits to them, as a separate page may be overkill (I think this holds for Scoundrel's Rise, though I haven't been through there recently). G R E E N E R 21:51, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

I never got the chance to link in the separated pages due to the almost instantaneous delete tagging of the pages I created because they "Do not exists". I felt it was better to let the discussion reach consensus than to futher muddy the waters, though it was my firm intention to add clearly visible links from the main pages to the WiK content pages. -- Wyn talk 21:57, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't really agree with c). It's already confusing enough, I think doing it the same way for all WiK content would be best. The WiK page doesn't have to repeat the entire formatting of a complete explorable, it could just keep the infobox and then list what's different from the original, such as the new encounters, NPCs and dialogues, and original NPCs that were removed, if any. Rose Of Kali 22:10, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

With Wyn's pages your basically doing something that's already been done. Makes more sense imo. Sardaukar 22:29, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, once again, Santax seems to be ignoring this conversation, and has once again changed the navigation template. Can we please come to some consensus and end this? -- Wyn talk 15:33, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

All Those in favour of making seprate and easy to acesss pages for War in Kryta encounters, Saye aye, Aye Mari Rose 17:43, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

AYE!! It would seem that Santax is the only one opposed, since I have not seen much opposition in these discussions, even by Santax. We wouldn't even know that he was opposed if he wasn't off deleting our pages. So, at the risk of possibly offending Santax or anybody else opposed to the separation of WiK content, I think the concensus has already been reached. I say let's go ahead and do it! Everybody posting here wants it. And, honestly, the GWW was not set up to please Santax, but to please the community, and the community majority seems to be in favor of separation. So, then, the next question is, how to we keep Santax from deleting them again? --Musha 15:38, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Maybe we should have an anti-Santax league? Seriously, the reason I've not been more vocal in my opposition is because I have, in one place or another, made all the points I have to make on this, and arguing with Wyn only leaves you wish some angry emails in your inbox and patronising messages on your talk page. She's been posting everywhere she can about how I've ignored this discussion or gone ahead and done this without reaching a consensus first but the reality is, Wyn's the one who has failed to wait for a consensus. I realise that I edited North Kryta Province, Nebo Terrace etc. without having first reached a decision on whether the content was going to be split or not, but the reason I did so was because doing otherwise would mean letting the game go undocumented until this discussion was resolved. We had three choices - one, we could just not document things at all, or document things where it would not be seen in the mainspace until this was resolved. Two, we could just accept Wyn's proposal as an interim thing until discussion was resolved (and I think you would find in that situation, discussion would have stopped right there because Wyn would have gotten what she wanted and we would be stuck with that), or three, we could document things according to the formatting guidelines until we have reached an agreement, and then change things if necessary. I have just been going with number three, just as Wyn originally went with number two (those pages, tagged for deletion? Proposals, for some reason created in the mainspace) and more recently, number one. I have my issues with the proposals, and I've said what I had to say about them, but the sheer pettiness of Wyn, going around accusing me of not waiting for thehdiscussion to be resolved, when all I am trying to do is document the game - that astounds me. Her comments show a clear attempt at turning the community against me, but I just hope you can all remember that "consensus" is not determined simply by who can shout the loudest. To be honest, I'm disappointed that this comment is even necessary, the time it took me to write this could have been far better spent, you know, doing something constructive. --Santax (talk · contribs) 16:33, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Alright, so, when and how is a consensus going to be reached here? We have lots of sweet stuff to document, and even more coming. Let's get crackin. As I said before, the majority of the community wants a separation of WiK content, can't we just simply comply? --Musha 16:41, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

You can throw all the NPA violations around you wish Santax, but the simple fact is, that the majority of people who have weighed in on this discussion from the very beginning have agreed with the separation of the WiK content. I did not just create the pages out of thin air, I created them after speaking with several other wiki editors, in game, and in IRC, and they all agreed that a separation of the information was the cleanest, most organized way to do it. I might mention here too that I created those pages weeks after the War in Kryta content began appearing in game, and little of it had actually been documented at that point. I did immediately bring my proposal here, and yes, I made the pages in mainspace, because that's where they belong, and having to change out all the links in the nav box, and on other pages when the proposal was approved (given that is really IS the cleanest way to do it, I was confident it would be) was more unnecessary work. Plus, having them in the mainspace, I was hoping that as additional content showed up in game, people would add to them, however, you chose to ignore them, and continue to make a mess of the main explorable pages, even though there were serious questions about whether that was appropriate. You say you are doing things according to the guidelines, yet there is nothing in any of the guidelines that says anything about an area having to have a separate DAT id to be given it's own article, yet that is what you have based all of your arguments on. The only thing that stopped you from putting the WiK content on the pages I created was your own personal opinion, not the consensus of the community, or anything in the formatting guidelines. If I have been posting everywhere about this, it's because this discussion has become so fragmented because of the plethora of separate pages that have been created for this. I posted on your talk page for the simple fact you seemed to be either missing, or ignoring this discussion. -- Wyn talk 17:30, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Wyn's idea, too, for the many reasons stated above. I think it's best to implement it already, since there are no good arguments to do otherwise. Erasculio 19:45, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Amen. Frankly, its time to get everything organized already instead of having all this information floating around between pages. --Musha 13:52, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

So can we call this consensus to separating the WiK content from the normal explorable content in the way I proposed? I feel the update tomorrow might add even more stuff, and I'd like to see this get straightened out. -- Wyn talk 23:27, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Please! And I do agree that having the separate page show only the additional content is much cleaner and easier to sort through. G R E E N E R 23:36, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

As long as you do it for the right reasons (separate because it's easier to understand) i see no problems with going ahead with Wyn's proposal, even if i would prefer another option.--Fighterdoken 01:13, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

I have completed the separated (War in Kryta) pages, but I'm going to leave the clean up of the main explorable pages to someone else. I also have not linked the WiK pages to the mainpages, at this point they are only linked to the War in Kryta page through the navigation box. I was unsure about Ice Cliff Chasms and would propose to leave that as is unless further changes are made in upcoming updates as there really isn't enough separate content to warrant a full article. I have not been really up to speed with GW lately, so if I have missed something, I'm sure someone will add it. And yes Fighterdocken, I truly believe this is going to make the information much easier for users to find, and use, and create less confusion. You are welcome to pursue other options that you feel are better. -- Wyn talk 07:54, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Wyn. I've tried a few different ways to tie together the WiK page with their regular page, and vice versa. Disambig was far too small too see, so I stole the code from the banner on the main page, and made these. I don't know how to make templates for them, but let me know if you folks think they may be too bold.

This map has additional content during the War in Kryta
for those who have completed Prophecies or Eye of the North.

The War in Kryta content below is in addition to the content regularly found on this map.
It is available for those who have completed Prophecies or Eye of the North.

G R E E N E R 08:05, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

I think we should stick to using {{Location disambiguation}} for this...

(Added) Taking your idea, how about something like {{otheruses|the explorable area|information about the [[War in Kryta]] content available after completion of [[Prophecies]] or [[Eye of the North]]|Waka Waka (War in Kryta)}}? Just to keep things consistent.--Fighterdoken 08:07, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I added {{otheruses}} to each of the main location pages, and removed all WiK content from them. If you feel that {{otheruses}} would also be appropriate on the WiK content pages instead of the opening text lines of those articles, feel free to add them. (also, feel free to correct any mistakes I may have made along the way.) -- Wyn talk 06:33, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Why on earth does everyone keep saying "for those who have completed Prophecies or Eye of the North." That is blatantly false. You can NOT access the newest, and I assume later, War in Kryta content without having purchased Eye of the North. Therefore it is necessary to have completed Prophecies AND own Eye of the North.

I think the majority of people working on the WiK all have both Prophecies and EotN and thus wouldn't know the intricate details of which part of the WiK event requires EotN. Aside from Zinn's dialogue, the HoM scenes and the one in Ice Cliff Chasms, is there anything else which requires EotN to view or experience? For example, can someone without EotN get into Lion's Arch Keep? 58.106.158.34 10:08, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

The answer is NO, everything introduced on and after the May 6th update requires having seen Zinn's Trial, which is only possible by having Eye of the North; therefore, the VAST MAJORITY of War in Kryta content is limited to people with Eye of the North. This is not a good way to encourage me to buy Guild Wars 2.

Split

Should we start splitting the pages for the War in Kryta? Some of these topics (like the facebook updates) are big enough for their own large articles. Edit: I propose we split the viral marketing campaign and the facebook updates into their own article. 58.106.43.167 11:50, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

It would have been REALLY nice had you waited for community response to this proposal before implementing it. -- Wyn talk 18:15, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

There was apparently no dissent. is for Raine, etc. 18:16, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

I agree with a split. This article has become a tad too long, with the fluff from the viral marketing tacked on. Pariahtalk 00:54, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

I agree too that the article is a bit too long. Also, while i am not entirely sure if the reasons people used for move the "viral marketing" section to another place were the right ones, it seems that such section is still the best candidate for a split as long as we leave a visible enough link into the article's body.--Fighterdoken 01:47, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

It's a bad idea for several reasons. Attribution issues are one. Another is that the material could and should have been cleaned up, so to take less space. Third is tha you need an overview of it in the main article anyway, and that will be almost as larduring second e as the main section of the vfiral markeing. I suggest making pages for the facebook updates instead, and linking those. the chronicles should also be linked, that's missing now. Backsword 19:04, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

War in Kryta

→ moved from Guild Wars Wiki talk:Community portal

It seems that the inmates have taken over the assylum, and the War in Kryta content is now being spread far and wide. I would really like to see a consolidated conversation regarding how to handle this without any more splits/merges. Everyone seems to have their own ideas on how this should be dealt with and there are discussions going on in about 10 places now. Can we please get this under control? -- Wyn talk 18:11, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

For the areas, I say that we should either have pages like [[War in Kryta/Talmark Wilderness]] for every explorable affected by the war (whether or not there is an ID), or we just add a section to the bottom of every area affected by the war for a list of the changes in the war.

For the Dialogues, we could do the same, and if they are deemed necessary for an area, just do what we do for the checkpoint dialogue (which is incorrect as well, see Talk: War in Kryta/Checkpoint dialogue#Different locations, different lines). This would be easier, imo.

For NPCs, it would be the same as the areas. Personally, I think this is the best probable outcome. The only exception to the area naming should be the Lion's Arch Keep, since that's not a duplicate area. -- Konig/talk 18:47, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

There is a discussion here about splitting the viral marketing into its own page. I think that's a separate issue from the explorable areas issues being discussed elsewhere. If people want to put their input there, maybe consensus could be reached. As far as the explorable areas, I like the proposals to split them into their own pages. 58.106.43.167 18:59, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

(This may be posted in the wrong area, if so, my abject apologies) Has anyone looked at the play imbalance caused by the addition of Peacemakers into the explorable areas?? My, admiitedly, limited experience seems to indicate that these additions greatly overpower the existing foes in any area they are introduced and worse, don't even work up a sweat doing it!! Hard Mode is supposed to be difficult, but now the addition of another ~50-75 foes make vanquishing an even harder (or improbable) task. Plus the inability to "complete" certain tasks (see Lt. Thackeray's Scavenger Hunt) due to the non-availability of required items is NOT a good sign of commitment to GW by ArenaNet-------------yeah the "new" release may be awesome, but as of today, it's still just "vaporware".Undouble 15:10, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

This is not the page for this. I would recommend you either submit a Suggestion or find a fansite forum. You could also take it up on the appropriate Game update page. -- Wyn talk 15:14, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Let's try an keep this all in one place. Backsword 22:12, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

I think that, so far, the explorable area pages being split into War in Kryta versions, and pages being split off onto their own simply to keep everything that's linked in one place (like the Gwen and Thackeray dialogues, and the War in Kryta dialogues) so you don't have to go to 2, 3, or even 4 different pages to see all the info has been great. But I think Wyn is right, they are all kinda all over the place, as are discussions about this subject. If you want to find something, you kinda have to browse through the pages to find it. What if we set up a category page for all War in Kryta content so that each of these new War in Kryta related pages can be accessed from a single source? As for whether or not the split into separate War in Kryta versions should happen, it seems that it already has, and I fully support it. Those pages have already been split, so it would seem that the consensus is in favor of it. --Musha 22:16, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

You mean like Category:War in Kryta? Backsword 22:22, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Lol. Yes, like that. --Musha 22:48, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

As far as splitting, i think the actions taken so far in regards of dialogues and the War in Kryta articles were a good idea, as the implementation of them helps prevent creating "too large" pages that become a bit harder to follow when you have all the content in them.

Now, in regards of War in Kryta changes to maps, i think we should avoid mixing the information from it with the old zones articles, and i am not entirely sure either if creating separate copies for each affected zone is the best option.

One alternative i would like for everyone to consider would be creating a new single article (ie. "List of War in Kryta zone changes") listing all the changes that have been made, article which could also be linked separately from each independant zone if required. This way, we would split the event recording only into:

• War in Kryta (main article)
• List of War in Kryta encounters (dialogues)
• Gwen and Thackeray
• List of War in Kryta zone changes

With only those 4 articles containing the information (instead of creating separate copies for each affected zone) we shouldn't have much problem keeping things up to date.--Fighterdoken 01:47, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

It's an idea, however, people are more likely to search for the zone when they come here than searching for "War in Kryta". I still believe having separate pages for the effected zone and have those pages contain the lists of additional spawns, WiK only quests (if they ever appear), as well as the altered maps makes the most sense. I believe, since there is already a War in Kryta dialogues page, and the War in Kryta Viral Marketing page, that the content can be documented in more than one way, however, I find the Dialogues page to be confusing, as it gives very little sense of in game context. -- Wyn talk 17:37, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

[Reset indent] I agree with Wyn. Having separate pages for the explorable areas is more intuitive for the information seeker, if not for the information sorter. --RoyHarmon 15:07, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Should we have the WiK pages also detail NPC's etc. which have been removed? Etham the Artisan in Nebo Terrace, for example? G R E E N E R 18:04, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't think so. We only need to list who is there. If you really wanted to know who's not there in the WiK version, you could go to the original page, and compare the 2. --Musha 18:08, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Interesting, but at the moment, the WiK pages are documenting only things which have been added. By your wording, there are no longer imps in North Kryta Province. G R E E N E R 18:11, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

On a similar note, Cursed Lands has rather large NPC changes. Did we want a WiK page for that? And if so, what format shall we note the changes in? G R E E N E R 18:52, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't think there is a need to note the differences in terms of NPCs. Like said above, if people want to know the differences, they can compare the two. The differences really only affect lore - like the Cursed Lands change show that the undead threat has been removed completely/mostly in Kryta (I say mostly due to Nebo and Black Curtain still having said undead, however that may be just to keep undead in Kryta's explorables for farming the trophy). -- Konig/talk 05:02, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Latest Murro Report

← moved to User talk:Aliceandsven

Latest Murro Report II

No reports since last Friday... Did Murro develop writer's block? I find it odd that there's only been 1 update since Queen Salma took the throne (or is she still being considered Princess ATT? Sorry, haven't completed the full storyline yet.) One would think that updates would be exploding forth after the arrival of Salma. /confused C'mon devs, take a break from enjoying GW2 long enough to continue the storyline!218.40.186.9 22:26, 20 May 2010 (UTC)Ryoko

You're assuming he escaped from Zinn and Blimm. There's every possibility they still have him slaving away. :P Arshay Duskbrow 22:32, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

You need to remember that since Linsey was sick, we have seen 4 days prior to the Blimm instance where there was no update. One time there was no update for two days, due to the scribe being imprisoned. They are likely making such kinds of lack of press releases (and some reasoning for said lack of press releases) due to being unable to act as fast as originally planned due to either sickness or unforeseen issues (bugs, for instance). -- Konig/talk 02:12, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

STOP REVERTING COMMENTS Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 02:32, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I bet the same guys that took out The Scribe took Murro too. Is a plot. A conspiracy, I tell you. MithTalk 13:37, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

When he first skipped a weekend I emailed support. They wrote back that they meant every business day. They must work an unusual schedule. (lol) Actually I know very few business that aren't 7 days a week these days. Ramei Arashi 15:40, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Boss Locations

I attempted to edit some of the peacekeeper boss locations by entering in {{NPC location|The Black Curtain|War in Kryta}}, but it changes the location to lower case, and cannot find the page: The Black Curtain (war in kryta). Am I missing something? G R E E N E R 18:47, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I see what you were trying to do, and it would have been fine, but you should have used {{NPC location|The Black Curtain (War in Kryta)}} instead. I was trying to implement this change to the bosses and NPCs, but User:Backsword keeps reverting all the changes... Can anyone provide defense for this reverting? :/ --- Ness Hrin | 19:08, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

The defense is that the explorable doesn't exist. It's just a change in spawns. However, it has become a consensus, it appears to me, that we should document the altered explorables as new maps in order to keep Prophecies and GW:Beyond separate, as there are many potential spoilers for those doing Prophecies. -- Konig/talk 19:44, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I can understand the defense. However, as there is a consensus we should at least keep things consistent; every situation having a different solution would make a huge disorganized mess, and I'm pretty sure that's not what Wiki was made for. ;) --- Ness Hrin | 19:50, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Ah, thanks Ness, I just had been staring at how the explorables etc. had been handled and thought that the code should have held. As for the bosses being put onto the regular map pages, they conceptually don't. They exist in the addendum which comes with WiK. It would be akin to a manual/textbook/resource duplicating its info in both the text and the appendix; It's not done for a reason, the same reason that we're separating the info, to keep things clean, clear, and relevant for those who want to look for appropriate information at all levels. G R E E N E R 21:30, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

cleanup

This article need a cleanup:

• War in Kryta dialogues need move to Walkthrough.
• New Explorable Areas need move to Walkthrough.
• Don't sure about Shining Blade camp.
• Game updates should move to Notes.

I won't do it (yet), but we really need to clean it.-- Itay Alon • Talk 16:21, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

What, you wanna turn it into a quest page? No, let's not do that. This page is fine the way it is with explaining what the WiK content is and then listing all of the new content associated with this chapter of Guild Wars Beyond. --Musha 17:56, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

I just don't think that all this content need to be a part of "new contents" section, because all this page content is new anyway... -- Itay Alon • Talk 18:37, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Musha: A pretty common complaint I hear in-game is that there's no coherent walkthrough for the War in Kryta stuff on the wiki. I imagine this is the first page that players will visit, and so we need to get a proper walkthrough on here asap so the event is accessible to more than just the people who know the right place to look on the wiki. --Santax (talk · contribs) 18:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

And oh god no, do not put all the dialogues here. The page would very quickly become way too large to be of any use at all. They are all documented on their respective location pages that are all linked in the nav box. I totally disagree with your arrangement of stuff Itay Alon. -- Wyn talk 19:54, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

While I agree that this needs a clean up, Itay's way is not the way. What I do suggest, however, is to wait until we have all information. The War in Kryta is like Nightfall (event) with the campaign being Guild Wars Beyond. It's just part of a campaign yet people are wanting to treat it as a new campaign alone, while others like a series of quests. It isn't either. People are also wanting to treat Gwen and Thackeray as a separate event. This, again, is not the case. G&T, WiK, and Trial of Zinn is all part of the same event that is the War in Kryta, which is part of Beyond. We should find a way to organize this, the G&T page, and War in Kryta dialogues into just a few. But I don't think it is possible to do such before the WiK is finished. -- Konig/talk 20:59, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure about my way, that's why I started this conversation at all. But I'm sure about that page needs cleanup, really hard to use it. I'm also not sure to wait, we already know all the new information comes summer. -- Itay Alon • Talk 04:59, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, what kind of walkthrough could we offer? I mean, its not like its a full campaign, series of quests/missions, or even a single quest. What it is is a progressive story, involving several dialogues, as the flowchart in the walkthrough section shows. I suppose we could just put the entire flowchart into words, but I think that would get very cluttered very fast. I believe the purpose of this page is to show players what has become available to them with the new updates for this chapter of Guild Wars Beyond, and I believe it is doing that well now. When players come to this page, they can see WHAT the WiK is, how/when it was introduced, and see all the new content they can participate in, including the dialogues, the locations, the new foes and their drops, etc. And all of this new content lists the requirements to access it. Granted, having to link over to the dialogues page everytime you want to check the reqs is a pain, but, as Wyn said, the last thing we want to do is bring all that dialogue over to this page. And Itay, your point is very valid, lol. Calling all the WiK content, new content is a given, so what if we redo that section and simply call it War in Kryta Content? It just seems much more organized having all the new content under the same section. --Musha 18:34, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

I agree this page is to show what was added by the WiK. I also think players come here for a walkthrough to guide them to a point where they can start doing the quests. That requires a comprehensive easy to follow walkthrough. It wouldn't be that big and certainly doesn't require the dialogue (which should never return here). A walthrough should be either on this page, or prominently mentioned on this page and the dialogue page does not fill that role. 58.106.158.34 19:02, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, I will attempt to do a simple, concise, easily-understood walkthrough on this page. My only "concern" is that, since the requirements for some of the WiK stuff includes the trial of zinn or the G/T story, a more comprehensive walkthrough which includes ALL of the Guild Wars Beyond content would be more appropriate and I think something like that might be better suited on the Guild Wars Beyond page. --Musha 21:01, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

The way I see it, there are two problems. 1) All of this content is intertwined, with a rather complex cause-and-effect chain between the various events. It's not like Nightfall where you have a primary quest chain and everything else gets unlocked as you progress along that. 2) We're continually getting content that either makes the existing event chains even more complicated, or goes in directions we don't expect it to, throwing existing documentation into chaos. The flow chart is a nice start, but it's going to just get bigger and messier as times go on, and I have to redraw it every time an update comes out.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure there is a good answer, other than waiting for everything to come out before documenting it, but that doesn't help people in the meantime. I do agree that Z+B and G+T's content should be considered part of WiK, since their only purpose so far is to lead into their role in the war. Scutilla 23:37, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

For those wanting to introduce a walkthrough on this article, may i suggest you create it at Guide to War in Kryta events or something simmilar? That way this article can remain as a reference for the "whole picture" and you can explain the events step-by-step in the other article without extending this one beyond the desirable? Sure, it will mean to have to keep another page in sync, but is a better option that constantly cleaning up this one.--Fighterdoken 00:17, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

I second what Figherdoken said. I might also suggest that there is some sort of link to Guide to War in Kryta events at the top of this page. That way the banner on the main page doesn't get any more cluttered and neither does this page. As a matter of fact if the information propsed to be cleaned up was moved to the linked page it would go a LONG way to making this page less tl:dr. IMHO --Xerelin 21:05, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Adventurer Mentioned

So, is this Aretes Kenjo an actual player? Or just a made-up name? 24.34.216.50 00:54, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Not someone who listed a character name on this wiki, at least. -- Konig/talk 02:37, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Random Ally Spawns?

says one but i had two one time glitch or just rare chance?AurenX 04:46, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Sometimes spawns cause more than one ally. Carlotta and Shadow always spawn together. When you get the Shining Blade Recruits to spawn, you can get anywhere between 1 and three join your party. When Nola spawns she has a skill to summon Rigo.If the two you saw spawn aren't any of the ones I mentioned then you got a bug. 58.106.158.34 10:05, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Dialogues

Out of curiosity, would it be easier to read/follow the dialogues on both the WiK dialogue page and the relevant map pages by using something similar to the template War in Kryta dialogues#Dialogue 2 - Search for Allies? This would allow for the dialogue titles to hold parity on both pages, and be easier to find at a glance. And yes, at the moment it copies the whole page, which is something I have no idea how to stop :( If it's a coding pipe dream, let me know! I just find the block of text to be sore on the eyes. G R E E N E R 01:15, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Fixed it for you ^^ --Neithan Diniem 20:20, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Not quite what I had been looking for, but it's a moot point now. Thanks though! G R E E N E R 16:39, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

War in Kryta Spawns

I didn't want to bring it up, but I think the wiki is beginning to move forward with the content now. I know the spawns in Kryta changed for the WiK but did anyone else notice they changed multiple times?

For example, in Kessex Peak after some of the first dialogue there were a tonne of Peacekeepers (very large mobs in one place spawned all over Kryta) and no White Mantle had appeared yet. After a few more updates (coinciding with the WiK dialogue telling the story of more White Mantle appearing) the spawns changed to less Peacekeepers and more White Mantle (making many of the areas significantly easier to vanquish).

My question is, did the spawn change from Peacekeepers only to Peacekeepers + White Mantle happen to everyone no matter how far along they are in the dialogue, or did they change after certain dialogues, but people who haven't seen them yet still get the Peacekeepers only spawn? 58.106.158.34 10:49, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I did two runs through Watchtower Coast, once with someone who had beaten Prophecies but done no WiK content, and once with someone who had done up through Camp Dialogue 4 (no Thackeray dialogues).

• No camp dialogues: A few Peacekeeper mobs, lots of Bog Skales
• Camp Dialogue 4: Lots of Peacekeepers, several White Mantle mobs

So, I suspect completing the camp dialogues not only causes White Mantle to spawn, but increases the number of Peacekeepers. Scutilla 17:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

People on guru are saying that when grouping with PuGs sometimes they get the spawns free of White Mantle but lots of Peacekeepers and sometimes they get the current White Mantle + Peacekeeper spawns. The spawn with no White Mantle usually has a tonne of Peacekeepers in out of the way parts of the map making them incredibly difficult to vanquish. Are you sure the spawns changed after dialogue 4 and not before it?58.106.158.34 18:02, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

No- I only did those two runs. It's possible that it changed with dialogue 1 or 2, but I doubt it since dialogue 4 is the one that triggers all sorts of changes. I can run a character through the dialogues tonight and see if anything happens after 1 or 2.

UPDATE: Well, I was wrong. As soon as I did Dialogue 2, I started consistently getting the "lots of Peacekeepers with some Mantle" spawns in Watchtower Coast. Minea the Obscure also consistently spawned, whereas before Dialogue 2 she never spawned. Though I haven't tested any other areas, it's a fairly safe assumption that spawns in other areas work the same way. I'll add the note to the chart until someone proves otherwise. Scutilla 01:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Walkthrough

The way the walkthrough is set up now WILL cause problems for those who are wanting to see ALL dialogues as well as get all 4 paper wrapped parcels and all 12 sacks of random junk. I changed it so it was worded correctly, but somebody changed it back. I'm going to fix it again, yes fix it, as a walkthrough that leaves out details as important as these is inaccurate AND incorrect. If you want to undo my fix, then explain your reason. --Musha 20:01, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

OK, I have an idea (missions page format):

Complete either Prophecies or Eye of the North → next step → next step

1. A Grim Report (Dialogue)

next step if needed

2. Search for Allies (Dialogue)

If you saw Trial of Zinn

3. ...

4. ...

you may see NAME dialogue by rezone.

Or something like that. -- Itay Alon • Talk 07:41, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

For example, dialogue 3 will never be accessible if you watch the trial of Zinn BEFORE dialogue 3, as the dialogues go straight from Evennia and Livia leaving to search for allies to Livia returning with Zinn, completely skipping dialogue 3. Watching the 'Gwen rejects Thackeray' dialogue in HoM concludes the scavenger hunt making obtaining any more paper wrapped parcels or sacks of random junk impossible. These are 2 important things about the walkthrough that warrant the information being rearranged to account for these. --Musha 15:41, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

after dialogue 4 you can rezone and see dialogue 3 -- Itay Alon • Talk 16:07, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Like Italy said, I'm fairly certain that Dialogue 3 can be watched any time after viewing Dialogue 2, since it's a random repeatable (or so I've heard) dialogue in the same style as Dialogues 5-9. It's just that Dialogue has a higher priority in the game logic, so if you've seen the Trial, Dialogue 4 will always immediately follow Dialogue 2.

It would probably be better to just tell people to watch the Trial of Zinn FIRST, since 1) Dialogue 3 has no bearing on anything else, and 2) it saves them from having to make a second run to Talmark.

Scavenger Hunt, I have no problem with listing the method for obtaining the maximum number of rewards, as long as it ALSO lists the method for clearing the event by giving him the fewest number of items possible. Scutilla 16:12, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Dialogue 3 is only watchable once. And, currently, better safe than sorry, right? Can anybody confirm that dialogue 3 can be watched after dialogue 4? --Musha 17:03, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I zoned to the Shining Blade Camp half a dozen times (using the south portal, but I think we've debunked the theory that that matters), and no dialogue 3. Guess you have to view it before ToZ/dialogue 4. Sorry for the misinformation, chalk it up to one of those "he said she said" things. Scutilla 19:39, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Why does this section exist at all? And why before the content section? WiK is not a single task. Backsword 05:58, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Agree, totally agree, its not as straightforward as kill this, go there, reward!--Markisbeest 20:31, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

The section exists because one of the most common complaints I hear in-game is that there's no easily accessible walkthrough for the War in Kryta, all in one place. If this wiki isn't going to serve as a guide, then what's the point of it being here? --Santax (talk · contribs) 20:33, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

To be helping us out with our strategies on bosses, missions, events and skills, not to be telling us how to complete it with the least amount of thought, if you like that then go play habbo hotel or something else where there is no purpose and no actual thinking involved.--Markisbeest 20:53, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

While it may be better to split it off to its own page and/or give it a bit of a rewrite, there's nothing wrong with having a cohesive overview to help people figure out where to go next, and have a central place to jump off to articles on individual quests/tasks. Consider List of Prophecies missions and primary quests as an example. Also, try to keep the discussion civil. - Tanetris 21:06, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

The list of Prophecies missions and primary quests are not a walkthrough, they dont tell you to do this, do that etc. they just list the missions and quests most, if not everyone went through while doing prophecies, so its just information and not a walkthrough. Also I didnt mean to not make an overview of what you can do, but I just think of a walkthrough as a: step one: go to talmark wilderness, step two:... and thats not the correct way to let people enjoy a game like guildwars.--Markisbeest 10:07, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

First, it may be a bug, but I saw dialogue 3 twice, once before dialogue 4 and once after it. Second, I agree that there shouldn't be a walkthrough as such as it isn't a singular event even though it converges.--Orry 00:27, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

I am for having a walkthrough. Without it, a War in Kryta newbie will have no clue what to do to access these quests they see people running off to do; they will start asking questions in towns, and if they are lucky, someone will stop what they are doing and answer. All answers should be on the wiki. The walkthrough answers the question: "What do I need to do to access Lion's Arch Keep/get Wanted quests", or similar questions. The missions are different because the game tells you what to do next. War in Kryta in-game does not provide this sequence, hence more need for a walkthrough. I also think it belongs on this page, or there should be a prominent link on this page to wherever the walkthrough is placed. Also, Lion's Arch Keep and Wanted by the Shining Blade pages probably need links to the walkthrough as a statement of prerequisites, if those pages don't already have it. Jafar 04:07, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

If people are under the misconception that the WiK is a single task, we should do a better jon in educting them of it's actual naturee, not leading them on. Backsword 14:13, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Future Updates

• "Exciting quests" = dull and repeatitive quests
• "Decisive battles" = PvE encounters

Seems we have these covered. Or is there more to come? -Cursed Angel 16:27, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

This WiK "thing" is definitely not done. We don't know what the Medals do, and Salma is supposed to become queen, so there's at least one more update coming. Given that, I wouldn't draw any conclusions about about what's not going to be in it. Rose Of Kali 00:48, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

become queen i thought she already is queen. unless your expecting some sort of crowning ceremony- Zesbeer 01:00, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Dialogue from Lionguards suggest a showdown in LA. --Riddle 01:10, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Jade constructs suggest that Mursaat will get involved, too. Manifold 01:58, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Experience suggests that nothing will happen until everyone's stopped caring anyway. elix Omni 02:13, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Felix wins. 98.248.90.248 02:17, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

There should be at least a new dialogue since Ms.SlowPoke is still walking towards Ascalon. --MageMontu 09:53, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm guessing a mission at the end of which we will be in an instanced LA only reachable by completing the mission, which is where the medal of honor is turned in. Ramei Arashi 15:44, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Dispute?

Quote:All War in Kryta content is available only to characters who have completed the Prophecies campaign and have the Eye of the North expansion. To my knowledge (and experience), it is not true that you need to have completed Prophecies. You need to complete either Prophecies or EotN. Unless anyone objects or beats me to it, I will change the text. --193.89.129.69 09:45, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Wasn't logged in, sorry --Manassas 09:59, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

it doesn't say that you need to have beaten both if you read it carefully you would see that.- Zesbeer 10:37, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

"In-game content is available for characters that have completed either Prophecies or Eye of the North." Copy/Paste ftw. -- Wyn talk 10:41, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

"All War in Kryta content is available only to characters who have completed the Prophecies campaign and have the Eye of the North expansion." <-- That IS copy/paste from the article - and if that doesn't say I HAVE to complete Prophecies to see all the content, then I don't know how to read. --Manassas 10:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh ... and Zesbeer. If you read my post carefully you will see that I don't claim it says you have to beat both *smiles* --Manassas 10:53, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

your implying it.- Zesbeer 10:57, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

hi zeesbeer you're wrong again why do you even bother coming on wiki when all you do is show how retarded you are?--67.159.5.99 10:59, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

It's quite possible he misunderstood. I did the first time and had to re-read. Oh, and go read GWW:NPA. Shadow Runner 11:02, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I see where he's taking that from, and I do believe it's misleading. I believe what is trying to be conveyed is that you can only get all War in Kryta content if you not only have completed one but also own EotN. So, if a player has completed Prophecies, but doesn't own EotN, they will only get some of the War in Kryta content, but not all of it. I think it can be worded better, and also doesn't need to be bolded in the article. -- Wyn talk 11:17, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually it's she, but never mind that. ~Looks like we agree on my point and are bickering about other things. I'll reword the article. --Manassas 11:27, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

wyn already did.- Zesbeer 11:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Yep, I noticed --Manassas 11:34, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Just for information, I am running one of two characters through War in Kryta quite successfully and seeing all dialogues and bounties even though the character has not finished Prophecies but has completed EotN - that would lead support for the original Requirement Statement of having completed one or both of Prophecies and EotN as being requisites. In fact, there is the faint possibility that the Requirement is to have completed EotN and only to got past the North Kryta region as the henchies do not change their levels in the North Kryta War zone even though the timeline must have moved on from when they supported earlier Prophecies-only activities? Bearz 11:36, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, no one is arguing that you need to complete either/or, the problem was for those users who have completed Prophecies, but do not own EotN. -- Wyn talk 11:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

What bothers me is the need to have done the Wintersday quests to get the dialogues involving Thackery in order to get to the LA keep. I only did them on two characters. So I have to wait until next Wintersday for the rest. Ramei Arashi 15:47, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

That's not precisely true, you can alternatively beat EotN. Or just go with someone that has done one or the other. -- FreedomBound 15:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

@Ramei. You don't need need the Gwen and Thackeray dialogues in order to get to unlock the LA keep. What you need is one of the following:

1) Complete EotN, witness Zinn's Trial and watch dialogue 1, 2 and 4 in Shining Blade camp.

2) Complete Prophecies, complete Zinn's Task, witness Zinn's trial and watch dialogue 1, 2 and 4 in Shining Blade camp.

The Gwen and Thackeray dialogues and any other dialogues apart from the ones mentioned are purely optional (as of now). --Manassas 09:10, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, they are optional, but you should remember that without them, you will not be able to see Evennia come to the Eye of the North, or Captain Langmar come to the keep. You will also not be able to obtain the Ebon Falcons as random allies. --Musha 13:44, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Don't you need to have seen the trial of Zinn and the scene with Evennia outside the EotN to bring the story to the point that Evennia retakes LA thus to access ALL content you need both games, otherwise all you get is a pointless camp and changed spawns. 58.110.131.113 14:23, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, You need to witness Zinn's trial as I said above, but you don't need the scene outside EotN. Princess Salma takes over LA from the Lionguard without any help from the Ebon Vanguard. If you have witnessed the scene outside EotN you will just witness the Ebon Vanguard arrive in LA, but it has no impact on the events so far. --Manassas 16:06, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

But to witness the Trial of Zinn you need to have the Eye of the North expansion. --Orry 04:03, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Content triggers

As far as I can tell, there are some scenes and events that trigger new content elsewhere.

First, Completion of prop or eotn triggers Peacekeeper spawns and the new TW zone. Second, the Livia and Evennia leaves scene triggers White Mantle and SB ally spawns. Third, the Livia returns scene is the most major one, trigger acess to the Keep and it's content, and also falken. Fourth, the vanguard arives scene in the keep scene triggers Ebon Vanguard ally spawns and some extra sacenes in the camp and in the keep. Backsword 10:46, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

All of that is correct, is already known, and is noted on the page and in the walkthrough and flow chart. --Musha 13:42, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

I haven't seen a single one of the dialogues, yet I have Ebon Vanguard ally spawns. First time leaving from ToA after beating Prophecies (had already watched the trial), Scout Melthoran joined my party. -- FreedomBound 16:56, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Scout Melthoran is Shining Blade, not Vanguard. - Tanetris 18:14, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

That makes much more sense. -- FreedomBound 21:15, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Boss location names

Would it be possible to sometime clean up the names? A lot of the maps are like "Lashonalocation2"... no spaces, not descriptive, etc. It should be "Inquisitor Lashona (route 2)". Previously Unsigned 19:13, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

I prefer "Inquisitor Lashona map 2" –alistic 04:41, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

White Mantle HQ ?

Where is the White Mantle headquarters? (Jaxx Hammer)--173.16.56.248 04:33, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Riverside Province. Temple of the Unseen, to be precise. MithTalk 04:20, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes Riverside dose seem to be the consensus. How ever D'Alessio founded the White mantle, Thus the D'Alessio Seaboard area could also serve as their HQ. Anet needs to give our foe a homebace. The fortress in D'Alessio is perfect for a White Mantle HQ. The proplem is that its a mission outpost, not a town (or camp). Riverside is also a mission area unlike the Shinning Blade Camp. (Jaxx Hammer)--173.16.56.248 04:33, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

For what it is worth, right in the centre of D'Alessio Seaboard (War in Kryta) there is a largish mob of White Mantle with both a Jade Boss and a White Mantle Boss together and working in collusion and, on approach, one can see at least two Jade Sarcophagus (or is that Sarcophagi?) close by - I gave 'em a good kicking but they are inactive at present. I have the feeling that they are there for further development of the War in Kryta storyline. Bearz 22:07, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

One other possible place (my favorite) is the awsome floating castle in Kessex Peak. The potential for a White Mantle HQ in this location would be extreme. This is also an explorable area, thus can be dedicated to being a White Mantle HQ. (Jaxx Hammer)--173.16.56.248 04:33, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

In the SW corner of the D'Alessio area their seems to be an old fortress that is mostly off focus. This fortress has a large gate and what appears to be the outline of a harbor. This would be a perfect place for the White Mantle to inflict terror on Lions Arch from. D'Alessio is now accessible from within Lions Arch by talking to Jiaju Tai, making it an explorabe area.(Jaxx Hammer)--173.16.56.248 04:33, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

The area in the center of D'Alessio Seaboard is the Temple of Tolerance. Since we visit it during our initial visit to Kryta in Prophecies, and since they hold knighting ceremonies there, I imagine that the ToT was supposed to be the Mantle's "public" main base, while the Temple of the Unseen is their true base out in the wilderness where civilians are less likely to spot Mursaat or whatnot. 68.118.250.100 23:16, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, i concur (regretably). Riverside seems to be the only place that has a premade portal "Temple of the Unseen", Such a poorly designed fortress though. OH well. :) (Jaxx Hammer)--173.16.56.248 04:36, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

The Temple of the Unseen isn't a fortress... it's a temple. Temple's are not places one expects to defend from sieges or raids usually. -- Konig/talk 04:40, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Have you ever been there? There's a portal and a huge ass door. That means the actual temple is inside the mountains, and the Mursaat beyond the portal. You can't knock down walls where there are no walls, and can't touch what is not there. It may be called a temple, but that's just a name. MithTalk 13:18, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

I have been searching through out the jungle areas for more signs of a White Mantle presents. In Henge of Denravi, atop the hill. Their is a bramble gate that keeps you out of an unaccesable area. Through the brambles you can clearly see a portal, with a flag over the top of the gate. The flag is very large, blue in color with gold trim. More room for future War in Kryta storyline here? Those White Mantle could be EVERYWHERE.(Jaxx Hammer)--75.221.160.74 01:54, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

I believe that is the old pvp arena, nothing to do with the current storyline.-- Pyron Sy 02:04, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, that would be the removed outpost for Fort Koga. -- Konig/talk 02:32, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Clean?

Hopefully the changes i have made to the page are positive and the article can be considered "Clean"?

Ressurect

Really one ressurect and perhaps one healer in a mantle group is fine and the war in kryta is awesome but let's say u meet a group witha white mantle priest,sychopant healer and mentor with res...that doesn't look nice when you waste 10 mins trying to kill the priest and eventually killing him to have him res a sec after,then trying to kill the mentor while he is healed by the two monks...it's insane and i really think their heals need to be nerfed or something because this is driving people nuts... 95.180.76.188 16:04, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Either your damage output is way too low or your team is not considering things like interrupts, knockdowns, deep wound... you may have grown too used to PvE groups disreguarding healing in favor of hitting you with large groups... change your play style a little and its no problem... MrPaladin † talk 16:08, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Frozen Soil says hi. -- FreedomBound 23:53, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Hi Frozen Soil! Welcome to the WiK! --Musha 18:22, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Infusion

Does anyone else hope there will be a WiK-specific method of infusion? I had assumed that's the "secret weapon" Zinn would break out, but it doesn't seem so anymore. I'm not looking forward to dragging my foreign characters to the Southern Shiverpeaks for infused armour (just a personal aversion to sequence-breaking I guess) so a method of Infusion being made available in the WiK would be much appreciated. --Valentein 22:36, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Wait can you not be on the white mantle side? Cactus 01:22, 14 June 2010 (UTC) 6/13/2010

Uh, no. We, the heroes, are not given any choice in the matter considering we've already killed/murdered/put down the majority of the White Mantle leadership. I don't think we really have much of a choice at this point. Oh, and let's not forget that we also basically helped wipe out the majority of the Mursaat, aka "The Unseen Ones." Yeah, no. Our choice has pretty much been made for us. -- Timeoffire45 rawr 06:38, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Hey guys

Remember back a while ago when Anet was doing that War in Kryta stuff? That was pretty fun, good times, whatever happened to it? Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 21:03, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

I vaguely recall such a thing, though I assumed it was merely a legend. Shadow Runner 21:15, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Evennia is busy performing /fistshake to the white mantle in front of Ascalon City, so it may take a while for her to actually talk with Adelbern. MithTalk 23:26, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh, I don't know, they're probably working on adding new quests to make the story more enjoyable. Think at it as being loreplay, enjoy it. The fun part will eventually come. To be honest I think the quests are great. I like the whole secret ops approach and Mursaat headhunting thing. Markus Clouser 04:19, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

"The fun part will eventually come. To be honest I think the quests are great." If quests aren't the "fun" part, what exactly are we waiting for? I think a lot of people are thinking this is building up to some major awesome update, when really the rest of WiK is going to play out in bits in pieces like it has since the beginning. 68.118.250.100 04:57, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

16 days without a War Chronicles update? Maybe Murro is dead... Mistress ShadoWolf 17:28, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Stories are fun when you're allowed to read more than one sentence every month. Video games are fun when every quest isn't a rehash of the one from last month. These mursaat assassinations are like the fucking Bowser Stages of Guildwars. And now supposedly there are still four more and it's going to take half a fucking year to kill them all at this rate and it's getting a little painful. The normal bounties are constantly being reset. Random items that have no use taking up storage space that now cost real money (hmm what a coincidence). My expectations aren't high as I was disillusioned a long time ago but note how Anet actually TOLD US they were making "exciting quests" and "decisive battles". So far they've lived up to two or three of those words. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 20:40, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Loreplay sounds like about as much fun as LARP'ing..... Karate Jesus 20:48, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

At least with LARPing you get vitamin D. –Jette 21:00, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Have you ever LARPd or done any kind of role playing? I'm not saying I have but being closed minded sounds like about as much fun as being dead. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 00:49, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Last night I went to a club with my wife and about 7 transgenders. Had an amazing time. "Closed-minded" is not a descriptor I get often considering my lifestyle. There's nothing I love more than adorably nerdy people smacking each other with foam swords and tennis balls. However, for me personally, it sounds like about as fun as watching paint dry on the inner thigh of a morbidly obese, elderly woman. /shrugs Karate Jesus 01:26, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

So we just get useless stuff that fills our inventory with more sweets, alcohol and summons and stuff (which we don't even need since theres already lots of these things). Then we got ANOTHER Zaishen Bounty (YAY, no it sucks). And now we get pretty boring quests that are pretty standart Go to ..., kill ... (while you fight tons and tons of groups on your way). And there isn't much fun while you are going to kill the bosses. InfestedHydralisk 04:09, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh really one time my two wives, my lamia concubine and myself fell into a pink abyss and when we landed on a neon light disco dance floor and we totally started dancing with Jesus. We're going to try the blue abyss tomorrow night! Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 05:09, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Lamia concubine? That must be interesting. I thought all they did was drag people to hell. –Jette 06:57, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

So I'm not the only one thinking they should hurry up a little. The hole thing started more than two months ago. About time to wrap it up right. When GW2 Beta is up and running after the summer(atleast on that game convention) no one is gonna care about the faith of Salma or how Adelbern blows up Ascalon anyway. And that scribe figure Murro probably got eaten by some undeath.--Priest Tully 17:45, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

To be honest, the concept of frequent, episodic updates is good. This is what Jagex did with Runescape (or has done, I don't know how it works these days). There would usually be a new quest every single week, or something new (as in, NEW). Everyone says Runescape is/was bad, but I think they're stuck on the childish theme and bad graphics.

GW:B started off looking good but now we can see that it was just an excuse for Anet's slow production times. This isn't really their fault seeing as how they only have like 2 people actually making content. But just because something isn't someone's fault doesn't mean it's not a problem. We're bombarded with bugs in every update and to make matters worse we can't even get through some of the content because it keeps resetting. And each episodic piece of content we get is nothing new. Zinn's secret weapon is just a move that a boss used from a content update over a year ago, and it's the same bundle item mechanic that we've had since factions. Getting keys to open doors has been around since EOTN and doesn't really make sense most of the time anyway. EVERY WIK GREEN is a recycle of an already existing item. Jade Cloaks are re-colored Jade Bows. All of these epic and decisive battles are just normal mobs with a skill bar, maybe some ludicrously high armor, healing, and other mobs flying in from out of no where. Only dwayna knows how much longer this is going to go on for and once it is done we get to experience content which we already know how it will play out because NCSoft went ahead and freaking told us. Isn't that what the content itself was supposed to be for?? Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 22:35, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Area overhaul?

Is it just me or the missions that got explorable versions look as if they had more decoration, different fires and better lighting? Could it e that they 'overhauled' the areas? IT won't be the first time they make something like that. They changed the charr and the crystal desert centaurs. MithTalk 03:36, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Better off asking someone who designed the thing than one of us. –Jette 03:50, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I believe there was a discussion somewhere in the GWsphere about this exact topic. When Talmark Wilderness was first updated with the camp, someone noticed that the scenery was graphically improved. They posted screen shots and stuff... I don't remember where it is though. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 05:06, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I'll move to Linsey's when they remove the block. MithTalk 15:01, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, she'll respond to that. She always responds on her talk page and Guru....oh, wait... Karate Jesus 17:46, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Would you respond to her talk page? I have to fetch the file and edit in an editor with large file support. Even the fancy new pre-alpha builds of firefox get all clunky on it. It's a wonder it loads at all. –Jette 21:59, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Hell, I wouldn't, but it's not my job. It's not Linsey's either, but Regina barely responds to her talk page now either so.....yeah, they don't care about your input. The have the TK for that (lol). Karate Jesus 22:18, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Ha! As if. The TK has the same problem the rest of the "community" does: they can't agree on one damn thing. There's no development goals, no general consensus about what needs to happen, no design philosophy, no actual game design experience (there are a few exceptions, but most all of the TK are amateurs), and so what you get is 100 different people shouting at the top of their lungs trying to get THEIR good idea through, and ANet doesn't really know where to start. Stuff ends up getting tested in GvGs and such, which prevents things from being broken as badly as before, but the usual direction the live team wants to take them game in is "let's fix what's immediately wrong right now," rather than moving towards a better game incrementally. They also seem fond of these mahoosive but extremely rare updates that give everyone time to abuse mistakes, while also discouraging the gathering of real feedback. If ANet changed 5 problem skills once a week, they'd move more towards a good game than their current approach.

zz --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:MithranArkanere (talk).

tl;dr aside, I told them when I resigned that they should dissolve the crew to save time, but judging from the presence of "I'm a TK member" userboxes, I can only assume they didn't take my advice. –Jette 00:17, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Speaking of which, Calculated Risk (PvP) has the same bug as the PvE version. It reflects spell damage 50% of the time as well, so it's only a matter of time before a guild exploits that. Karate Jesus 01:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

They should have just added Confusion, it's so much coolerz. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 01:11, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Some of those lost spells would do nice PvE skills for prophecies as a reward for completing certain quests in WiK. The rangers could use something to disable traps, while recharging them in their own skillbarr. That way they could 'move' traps faster if they are not triggered, and also turn enemy ones against them if they have them in their own skill bar.MithTalk 04:24, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Henchmen

Those of us lucky enough to be STUCK with the WiK content who are also stuck with only the use of henchmen for WiK would like to ask ArenaNet to at least level the henchmen when in WiK content to a level that will allow them to FIGHT and not be killed in one hit. Thank You. Rogueonion 21:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Just sabway with a SoS rit hero. I've beaten all of the missions pretty quickly and half-afk. Tbh, it's pretty boring. Karate Jesus 21:56, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

The most difficulty I've had in these quests was towards the end at the fortresses or a couple times beforehand where it looks like you can sneak by a group but wind up aggroing the entire map instead. And by difficult I mean annoying because the Mursaat boss has tons of defense or their fortress is overloaded with mobs. I use an Ele healer with Energy Boon or whatever it's called and restoration skills, a spirit twisting protection rit and Gwen with Panic, power lock/complicate, mistrust, empathy, etc. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 22:41, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Sorry I am anti-Mesmer in anything, this update has ruined the game for everyone other than mesmers. So I refuse to use them. Rogueonion 03:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

You mad? 1-10, need to know. –Jette 03:58, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Nah, not mad, just not wasting my money on guild wars 2, or any other ArenaNet product from here on. Rogueonion 04:03, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

...what? Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 20:52, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Why do you have those wacky unicode things in your signature? It makes elinks cry. –Jette 20:58, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Because butterflies. What's an elink? Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 00:25, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

W:elinks. Actually, I think elinks might be able to display it just fine, but fixedsys (that nasty BIOS font) doesn't have... er, butterflies. –Jette 05:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

I too want an update, but they'll probably take as long as they took to change SF. Previously Unsigned 05:34, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Or it will never come simply due to the WiK being meant to be high-end difficulty and non-infused henchmen means harder difficulty and it will push more towards grouping instead of H/H which heroes ruined. If one gets rid of half the party (henchmen), then even with heroes one must group with breathing people miles away to beat the game. Quite cleaver if that was their intention. -- Konig/talk 09:51, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Nobody ever groups. The only day it happens is shortly after the quest is released, but then those die out quickly too. That's the problem. Made for groups, but no groups anywhere. Previously Unsigned 17:37, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

For high-end difficulty there is Hard Mode. If it is Anet's intention that WiK is for teams of human players, why do they not just say so? Why would Anet imply that GW can be H/H-ed, and then turn around and do the opposite? 83.163.223.50 17:18, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Covert Operaions

After recieving the quest reward for Temple of the Intolerable,Salma says there is four Mursaat left(4 operations left maybe?)...any idea when do these covert operations become avalaible?And these 3 quests so far have been in the places that are of importance to the white mantle(Riverside Assassination-Mursaat in Temple,Little Help-Shaemoor...) any ideas for the locations of the new operations,any guesses?95.180.76.188 00:53, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Just wait a month or so. Anet will get around to releasing the quests....eventually. Karate Jesus 01:04, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

What do you think the excuse will be for the Murro delay?

I'm assuming he was "arrested". Too bad they can't use that excuse to explain the lack of game updates. The devs collectively being arrested by the White Mantle for 2 out of every 3 months would be an understandable excuse for the lack of skill/content updates. Karate Jesus 01:25, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

We get boring stuff over time, so we can't say they aren't giving us new content. InfestedHydralisk 02:01, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Having to spring the developers from a White Mantle encampment would make an interesting quest, but they'd have to give a whole lot of war supplies for it to be worth it. –Jette 03:02, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

He tripped and fell in the same pit the Scribe did. Now they are fighting to see who eats who to survive. MithTalk 04:17, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

They all happened to eat the recalled Kellog's cereal. Previously Unsigned 06:50, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure if that's supposed to be an insult to Kellogs or not?--122.111.184.252 10:16, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Independence Day

Possible ANet is waiting for the 4th so that Kryta can have their Independence Day (from the Mantle) then as well? Mistress ShadoWolf 22:10, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

I hope not, as most players will be standing around in Shing Jea awaiting the arrivals of the Emperor to collect their gifts. Darcy 02:28, 4 July 2010 (UTC)